New tsuba

Hi guys,

Bought this tsuba to complete a simpler Koshirae of mine, like the style of it and looks really good mounted, but I cannot figure out the maker of it and hope for a little help from you guys?

Jorgenson,

The tsuba signature reads "Nobuiye", and appears to made in the style of that maker. It does not appear to display the quality of the Nobuiye who was a very famous tsuba maker. Some of the more knowledgeable fittings guys here might be able to elaborate on the details of Nobuiye, any succesive generations, etc.. To me it appears to be a copy. If you do some searches I'm sure you'll find a fair amount of info.

Please don't forget to sign your posts with your name.

Hi -- Ted is correct. This is a nice example of the work of 'Echizen Nobuie' who worked in the seventeenth century. Nothing much is known about him but the signature is distinct and his use of kebori and often a mimi reminiscent of Myochin is distinguishing. He sometimes used a peach shape as shown below. He is not considered a member of the original 'Nobuie' group but a distinct maker along with Akasaka Nobuie, Owari Nobuie, etc.

Wow, that was eally great info. Really cool ypu posted that picture of (your own?) tsuba, the style/shape are very identic/similar to the one I have. However it is really smooth, nicely crafted, with good thickness and weight and great looking at

And thanks for the good and quick feedback Ted & Peter.

//Jimi

My pleasure. The tsuba picture is from the book, 'NobuieTsuba and Nakamura Kakudayu Nobuie Tsuba', Token-Shunju-Shinbunsha 1981. I have had two tsuba similar to yours in the past. They tend toward being heavy with thick rims. I have noticed that the surface seems to rust easily and most examples I've seen tend to have some degree of surface pitting. Finding one in pristine condition seems to be rather rare,at least from my experience.

Some observations on Jimi’s tsuba in order to further the discussion.

The carved decoration appears to be too deep to be kebori, and may originally have contained soft metal inlay. Is that a remnant of such that I see at 12 o’clock on the omote surface?

While the kōgai-hitsu is probably original, that for the kozuka appears to be a later modification.

And is that remnants of gilding that I detect on the mimi?

Regards, John L.

Agreed this one is a later Nobuiye but I am not convinced that its the 'Echizen' maker. The jigane doesnt look up to his level of skill and raised mimi work falls far short of the skilled work shown in the published example above and against other examples I have seen.

My feeling on this one is that it dates much later than the Echizen worker and would consider it more likely a 1st quarter 19th century revival work when many artists were producing this style.

Regards

Michael

Oh dear, I appear to be going out on a limb here ...

In my opinion there are no grounds whatsoever for labelling Jimi's tsuba as Nobuie work of any shape or form - apart from the mei, which is almost certainly gimei. The decoration is crude and unskilled and, if as I suspect, it originally contained soft-metal inlay, bears no relation to any known work by these groups. The form of the mimi (especially if it was gilded, won't do and, finally, the quality of the plate disqualifies it.

I now sit back and await your comments!

Regards, John L.

I'm afraid I have to agree with John. It seems to me to be a copy of Echizen Nobuie's work, but I don't think it is by that artist himself, for the reasons John gives. Echizen Nobuie's work, while not approaching that of THE Nobuie (I and II) of the Momoyama period, is still quite skilled and relatively well finished. I am not aware of Echizen Nobuie using any inlay, and as per Pete's example, this artist's iron is superior to the piece in question, at least it appears this way from the photo.

Cheers,

Steve

Nice with the feedback. Im pretty sure that it is kebori, as the rims/mimi (when having it in the hand looking) are not deep enough for inlay of any kind, and when looking there are nothing that indicates there have been. John, you are right it looks like remnants of gilding, but when looking very close in reality, the gilding seem to be made that way as small dots, placed just next to or in the end of the rims/mimi. Been considering this myself, but im quite sure of this. But whether it is Echizen Nobuie or gimei I will trust your oppinions as I am not experienced with works og Nobuie at all. But I certaintly appreciate your oppinions.

//Jimi

Dear Jimi, I am sorry, but kebori it ain’t! Literally ‘hair-line carving’, kebori comprises thin lines, of constant width and depth, engraved by a V-shaped tagane. Supposedly, no metal is removed from the plate during this process; clearly this cannot be the case with your tsuba.

Regards, John L.

I admit when it comes to tsuba terminology, I am not very good and I appreciate your explanation John and yes, its of course obvious then.

Thanks.

I decided to post on this topic because I recently purchased a Nobuiye styled Katchushi tsuba. From a website I can across on this message board a few months back. After examination of mei and talking with the person I purchased the tsuba from we (former owner and myself) are sure it isn't one of the two very famous Nobuiye of the Momoyama period. If it was I'm sure it would have been out of my price range in the first place. It was also different then the real Nobuiye I viewed at the "Art of the Samurai" exhibit at the Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York.

The major reason for purchasing the tusba was because I like the style of the ko-sukashi in the shape of the bonji character "Kan" which is a symbol of Buddhist protection deity Fudo-Myo-o. I historical favorite of bushi. I also did some research of the Kanji character written on the ura side which reads in Romanji "Kurikara". Kurikara is a one of the popular forms of Fudo-Myo-o found on Nihonto. This form being a dragon rapped around a Chinese style sword with the head of the dragon bitting the tip of the sword. More then just researching the Kanji and Bonji characters present on the tsuba I also researched later Edo period Nobuiye or Nobuie (encountered both spellings) artisans. I did some research reading the book "Tsuba An Aesthetic Study" by Kazutaro Torigoye and came across the different regional schools of Nobuiye that were active in the Edo period (Joshu Nobuiye, Kashu Nobuiye, Akasaka Nobuiye, Owari Nobuiye, and Echizen Nobuiye). Could anyone tell me which group if any does my tsuba resembles? I really like the style and make of my tsuba and would consider it one of my better pieces in my small collection.

Yours truly,

David S. (Soshin)

Dear Jimi, I am sorry, but kebori it ain’t! Literally ‘hair-line carving’, kebori comprises thin lines, of constant width and depth, engraved by a V-shaped tagane. Supposedly, no metal is removed from the plate during this process; clearly this cannot be the case with your tsuba.

 

Regards, John L.

Hello John,

sorry to disagree with you but kebori doesn't, literally, mean ‘hair-line carving’. The kanji that denotes the 'ke" is also read 'te' and means hand ( Just like in 'kara-te'). Bori, or hori, means carve. So the term really only means hand carved, literally.

I'd suggest it's a fairly basic term in this traditions metalworking vocabulary and is used to describe any line that is cut by means of a 'V' shaped chisel. There is no implication that the lines be absolutely regular either. The application could be further described as kiri-bori; the use of the word kiri emphasises the fact that metal is actually cut and removed, also to distinguish it from giri-bori'

This is a related process (giri-bori) where the word giri means kick. In this technique the metal is not removed but only displaced by means of a wedge shaped punch. It is this technique that swordsmiths use in signing their mei on nakago.

The word for both punches and chisels in the metalworking tradition of Japan is tagane. We make the distinction by prefixing the word with either kiri (to cut) for chisels and giri (to kick) for punches.

Hope this help to clarify things a little.

regards,

ford

Dear Ford

Thank you for your recent posting regarding the etymology of the word ‘kebori’. But, while you have clarified this beautifully, you have also created considerable confusion regarding its use. Are you suggesting, then, that we should utilise it to describe ‘any line that is cut by means of a ‘V' shaped chisel’ – surely that could also apply to katakiri-bori – or should it be used, as I understand it, solely to describe the ‘line-carving’ such as one sees in, for example, Nobuie work?

Kind regards, John L.

are you suggesting, then, that we should utilise it to describe ‘any line that is cut by means of a ‘V' shaped chisel’ –

Hi John,

yes, in effect that exactly what any such line is, ie; kebori

Kata-kiri bori is carried out by means of a flat chisel. Only the corners are used though and the varying width of the cut is created by leaning the chisel over.

This images shows cutting kata-kiri style.

Kata-kiri chisel above and kebori chisel below.

sorry for the confusion.

ford

Hi Ford, The top chisel is like the one that I used in cutting a signature, using it vertically or on edge. It wasn't easy either. John

Hi John,

most mei on kinko work are cut kata-kiri, yes. Good thing none of it is easy...or everyone would be doing it. :D

regards,

ford

Comparing the carving technique used in the original Nubuie tusba posted and the technique used in the "Kurikara" statement on the ura side of my tsuba looks very different. Ford, would the technique used on my tsuba be considered ke-bori or katakiri-bori? I have a kinko tsuba that uses katakiri-bori style carving technique. I also have many books detailing wonderful machibori artisans who's kinko works used that technique greatly. I have never observed the katakiri-bori technique being used in the medium of iron. Thank again everyone for providing wonderful information and discussion.

Yours truly,

David S. (Soshin)

Hello David,

it's hard to be certain but the photo of yours does seem to show a definite slant on the right hand side of the cut grooves. This may be indicative of the use of a kata-kiri chisel...

The tsuba that started the thread is kebori, imo. and I very much doubt any inlay was ever in those lines.

For what it's worth the mei of genuine first and second generation Nobuie are struck in giri-bori; that the same way swordsmiths do theirs. In addition, it appears to my eyes as though almost all the 'so called' ke-bori decoration on their tsuba is in fact also clearly giri-bori. that is to say no metal was removed, it was only displaced.

I can upload some high res images of some pretty famous examples where you can easily see the characteristic "chatter marks" of the arrow head shaped punch....but I need to feed my family first.

So, should what is generally referred to in the literature as ‘kebori’ now rather be called ‘line engraving’; and is there a Japanese term to specifically describe such a technique? ‘Giri-bori’ is clearly not specific enough in this respect.

David only has only to refer to the work of Gotō Ichijō and his students to see superb katakiri-bori in an iron medium.

John L.

Hi John, I think kebori 毛彫り is still the perfectly acceptable description for line engraving on tsuba where a continuous line is carved with an even contour and depth. There are lots of cases where kebori is used in combination with katakiribori and I think Ford is illustrating that a different type of tagane is used for each technique. John

John.

line engraving is correctly called kebori, I was merely trying provide some clarification on what you said here, not suggesting a change of terminology.

but kebori it ain’t! Literally ‘hair-line carving’, kebori comprises thin lines, of constant width and depth, engraved by a V-shaped tagane. Supposedly, no metal is removed from the plate during this process

Giri-bori is a quite distinct technique and is generally identified by little notches is the line and a a slightly raised edge to the line where the metal has been displaced as in example this Nobuie.

I've uploaded some more exampleshere, in my picasa gallery, that are full resolution.

Thanks for the post and so many others. It is always a pleasure to learn to look and see what more expert eyes see. I have not really looked at the way lines were incised before. I appreciated the image but not the technique. You again have given me and others reasons to look again at our tusba and other fittings and see new things. This time it is with hand lens in place...

Even though I am primarily a blade collector the tosogu section of the messageboard continues to be my favourite spot to visit. Thanks for starting the thread on contemporary tsuba one of the best for the year! (I know the year is young but wow was that great!)

Hi Barry,

thanks, I'm glad my little contributions help to stimulate a fresh look at times

best regards,

Ford