Yasukuni

From what I have read the forge at Yasukuni had scabbard makers and polishers working there as well as the smiths. Does anyone know

1. The level of the polishers. Masters, excellent. good etc

2. Were habaki made there too?

3. What kind of scabbards were made. Gunto or shirasaya?

Thanks a lot

A friend of mine has a Yasakuni blade in gunto mounts and the fittings are by "Suya Sho Ten".

See this page:

http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/logo/logo.htm

This may be interesting to you (if you havenot already got it : http://www.bushidojapaneseswords.com/did_you_know.htm

On another board a fellow forumite was lucky enough to have one

of these Tsuka on his NihonTo in Shingunto mounts. All of us firstly watched at the blade but the tsuka was at least as valuable as all the rest... :D

Thanks a lot. Very interetsting.

Hello, I have no records about the makers. As a reference here are two gunto mounts. One on the left is an officer grade gunto mount. The other one for a sword by Miyaguchi Yasuhiro from his early Yasukuni time. Most parts of both koshirae loock ready made. The designs on the Yasukuni one, however, are slightly easier to read and the cast is a better quality. The laquer is alo diferent and the copper part in the alloy appears to be higher. Since there is no real standard szise for gunto koshirae there must have been specialised workshops involved to customise the mounings for the particular blades.

The book on Yasukuni swords by Tom Kishida might be a source for aditional reading.

Maybe, someone in this forum has more ideas about this.

Dieter Hammer

Hi Henry,

On page 72 of Tom Kishida's book "The Yasukuni Swords: Rare Weapons of Japan 1933-1945" it says the following:

"The 13th meeting of the board of directors, held on the 5th March 1937, admitted sword polishers to the Foundation in Articles 2, 4, and 6 of "Chapter 1 General Rules" and Clause 1 of Article 8 of "Chapter 2 Employment and Discharge" of the Regulation of Sword Engineers. Early in 1937, Ozaki Seiko, who was a student of Hirashima Shimazo, a sword polishing contractor with the Foundation, was employed as a sword polisher. He started working at the first workshop for sword forging, but was drafted to the military on the 6th August of the following year.

In early 1939, a new two-story building was constructed in the western part of the sword-forging factory. The building had stores for tamahagane and charcoal on the ground floor and sword-polishing and saya-making on the first floor.

On the 1st April in the same year, Takayama Tatsumi entered the foundation as a sword-polishing trainer, as well as his students, Matsubara Toshio, Tabata Kenzo; (a younger brother of Shinohara Yasutaro who entered in 1934), and Ida Masakatsu. Takayama Tatsumi trained about ten sword polishers up to the end of the war. Saya maker Sato Kiyoshi entered the foundation in June 1939. He was the only saya maker at the Foundation, and provided all the Yasukuni-to with shirasaya. A member of the Chou Token Kai, Yamada Ei, who was a non-regular sword polisher for the organisation, also entered the Foundation in 1944".

So, it appears that another organisation may have been responsible for the shin gunto style mounts. The book doesn't say anything about habaki. Most of the polishers were trainees (under the ultimate guidance of Ozeki Seiko until August 1938 and then Takayama Tatsuni, Matsubara Toshio, Tabata Kenzo and Ida Masakatsu). Perhaps look on the internet for more information about these polishers to judge their level of skill.

I hope this helps.

Regards

Justin

Hello Richard,

here is a pic of a Yasukuni sword´s habaki. If someone else has pictures of other habaki coming with yasukuni swords, we could make a nice comparison!

Dieter

A habaki is normally an indicator of how good a sword is in a gunto mount. The more decorative habaki the better the sword, a copper habaki usually fits onto swords that not as good as a sword with a silver habaki. I believe standard Yasukuni swords has good quality copper habaki but rarely comes with a silver habaki. Kind of reflect their quality really though I have seen special award tanto for the navy that comes with silver habaki.

Katsujinken-Ya,

I also owed a Yasukuni sword by Yasotoku smith. I will take some pictures to make a comparison later on tonight.

Quang

Hi Dieter,

I've got a nice sword by Yasutoku that has a plain copper habaki with it's original field officer's gunto mounts. Well made, but nowhere near as nice as yours.

As to the copper habaki/ silver habaki debate, I've seen two Seki stamped, oil tempered showato with solid silver, original habaki so I think using habaki to assess the quality of a blade is a complete no-hoper!

All the best,

Simon

Hi Dieter,

 

I've got a nice sword by Yasutoku that has a plain copper habaki with it's original field officer's gunto mounts. Well made, but nowhere near as nice as yours.

 

As to the copper habaki/ silver habaki debate, I've seen two Seki stamped, oil tempered showato with solid silver, original habaki so I think using habaki to assess the quality of a blade is a complete no-hoper!

 

All the best,

Simon

Hi Simon,

I say "generally" but of course it does not discount less usual circumstances. Also sword parts can sometimes become interchange by the owner so maybe you have a point here. Some habaki are silver plated and some are made of steel that look like silver. However it is a good guide that a better quality habaki general include a higher quality sword, as in the case of silver habaki over a copper one. We know the standard Yasukunito comes with a forged copper habaki. Silver habakis on guntos are often always forged as the sword is also hand forged, I might be wrong but I dont believe they are cast so it is uncommon to see a real silver cast habaki specifically made for a standardize machine made Showato.

Hi Mr Chan,

I agree that silver habaki on machine made blades are extremely rare but, strangely, the two I saw (many years ago in the UK) were solid, hand made silver examples and one had a matching serial number to the rest of the gunto fittings so had definitely not been swapped.

I guess it was a lot cheaper for the officer to upgrade his fittings than to buy an expensive hand-forged blade.

By the way, I've seen your previous comments about Yasukunito and know that you don't rate them very highly compared to other gendaito.

I totally agree that even the best of them aren't very spectacular to look at but the pleasure I get from owning a Yasutoku is that it is one of the very last traditionally forged blades that was made to be used in actual battle conditions. The smith still believed he was making something that may well have to cut a man down, not just look nice on a katana-kake.

As such, I think Yasukunito represent an important moment in the history of Nihonto.

Anyhow, just my thoughts on the subject.

All the best,

Simon

PS/ I forgot to add that I agree with you when you say:

A habaki is normally an indicator of how good a sword is in a gunto mount. The more decorative habaki the better the sword,

However, I think this only stands true for older blades that were pressed into military service.

I've seen blades by most of the top early Showa gendai smiths in gunto mounts and, with the obvious exception of Gassan, most of them have had plain, copper habaki (sometimes with "cat scratches").

All the best,

Simon

I agree with Simon's post.

I totally agree that even the best of them (Yasukuni swords) aren't very spectacular to look at but the pleasure I get from owning a Yasutoku is that it is one of the very last traditionally forged blades that was made to be used in actual battle conditions. The smith still believed he was making something that may well have to cut a man down, not just look nice on a katana-kake.

As such, I think Yasukunito represent an important moment in the history of Nihonto.

 

Adding to the above, what I really like about Yasukuni To is that they could very well be that last school of Nihonto. Why they are not that nice to look at is because they were made by military employed smiths and they were discouraged in making anything too flashy, also they lacked the time too.

Check them out................

http://www.jp-sword.com/files/yasukuni/yasukunito.html

Refering to the above post with the pic of the habaki. My Yasutoku has a copper habaki that is pretty much the same style and look. Mine is a nice copper piece but the marks along the side are finer. It has a red finish inside too if that means anything. I think that particular design compliments the blades grain quite well.

Hi Simon,

I totally agree with you regarding Yasukuni swords, they evoke the spirit of the old Samurai ethos. They were swords made for utilitarian purposes as well as art, the symbolism perhaps exceeds the workmanship but nonetheless an important group and that how I feel these swords are valued. Of course this does not include several excellent masterpieces but these were the exception not the average stuff.

Many famous early Showa smiths made average swords for the military effort, many were daisaku dai mei, many had copper habakis. They have to do this on one hand to reduce cost and by contributing to the army they are allowed tamahagane in return. Many average smiths made on the occassion a masterpiece that outshown swords by more famous smiths, these often were special order and fitted with higher quality habaki often silver. Gassan Sadakatsu make their own habaki and they too have copper, silver, gold foil and pretty sure solid gold habakis too.

I enclose a picture of a Yasukuni naval tanto, the habaki is a silver one which looks like those on other high quality swords in gunto mount.

Hi Mr Chan,

Thanks for the extra information and for the photo's of the naval dirk.... it was all very interesting.

I once saw an early mantetsu for sale on the internet that had a stamped nakago but which was also inscribed as having been made for a general (it was in general grade gunto mounts complete with tassel). This had a solid silver habaki very similar to the one on the Yasukuni naval dirk.

Best wishes,

Simon

Not a Yasukuni piece but this link shows an interesting habaki on an Ikkansai Kunimori blade http://www.jp-sword.com/files/gunto/examples.html

Here is my Yasutoku sword. All fittings are original as well the tassel.

Quang

Please see the link below to Ohmura san's Gunto site.

It shows a Yasukunito by Yasushige with a gilt habaki inscribed with the 2 kanji for "YASUKUNI":

http://www.h4.dion.ne.jp/~t-ohmura/gunto_030.htm

Simon

Hello,

here are two other styles of habaki. The silver one is actually part of the later war gunto koshirae. The blade is seki monosteel one. The second habaki is nicely made of copper with finely chiseled ornaments. The blade is a koto one signed "Nagamitsu".

Dieter