What to do with my Yasukuni Shrine Blade by Yasuhiro

Hi all

Apologies if this post is in the wrong location but as I'm not offering the sword for sale yet, I wasn't sure where to post my question.

Considering the recent popularity of Yasukuni Shrine blades, if you had this sword where would you offer it for sale? The thought of offering it on eBay fills me with dread. Although eBay gets the item out there in the market place, I'm not convinced it's safe. Now don't get me wrong I use eBay a lot to buy and sell items and overall my experiences are good; but we are talking about a valuable and treasured item here and not a DVD or the odd gift. Without listing all the drawbacks, because we all know them, I fear that I might not get paid even if I use Paypal.

Sometime ago I offered this sword to one of the big auction houses for sale. In short they weren’t interested, stating only that it wasn’t something they considered to be worthy of their stage. I kid you not!

This particular sword has been in my hands for 20 something years now and I know it is genuine; everything about is right. I’ve studied it for weeks if not months and I have bought and read most of the books on the subject in both Japanese and English. Its authenticity has never been in question as far as I know not even by the expert at the auction house to whom I offered it for sale.

It’s time to move it on and let someone else enjoy it or study it. After all, it is one of only 500 reputedly made by Yasuhiro at Yasukuni.

The sword is not a hundred years old yet so cannot be considered an antique, with all the implications that brings for shipping, customs and tax charges. In addition, shipping such items is now getting difficult here due to my government’s strange ideas on the subject of weapons. Recent changes in the law have resulted in most of the Couriers refusing to transport such items for fear of falling foul of the law, due to their own ignorance. Even eBay have revised their policy on the commerce of our beloved passion in my country. So, offering for sale and transporting such a valuable item is difficult and filled with uncertainty.

So my question is; what would you do if you were me?

Thanks in advance

Kapin

Hi,

Personally i wouldn`t sell it at this point in time as i do not believe that it will realise its true monetary potential.

Sotheby`s had a sale on the 11th November in London and its was somwhat of a letdown for sellers and auctionhouses alike with very few items even reaching the reserve prices.

There is a lot of fear of the recession and i think that that will hold back the potential bids of buyers.

Even the Dreaded ebay will likely produce a no sale or get too little interest to buy the item at a decent price.

Find a wealthy private collector who wants it and then find a dozen more and get sealed bids for it.then you look at the highest and decide whether to sell or not.(just an option)

regards

Shan

Shan is right and put it clearly

No time for sale

Yasukuni blades have been selling well in the UK recently. I know of at least two that sold in the past few months for resonable sums. If your in the UK take it to Birmingham militaria fair on Sunday and see if a dealer will buy it.

  Quote

So my question is; what would you do if you were me?

I would want it in my house to be cared for ....opps....id want mim 5K max 7K

  Kapin said:

Considering the recent popularity of Yasukuni Shrine blades, if you had this sword where would you offer it for sale?

At present, on my own site. :D

Not on Ebay, unless you put up a reserve and a Buy it Now, or offered it at a fixed price, otherwise you'd see it go for bugger all. In general, folks on Ebay want to get things cheap - they don't want to pay market value for things, particularly when the economy is imploding. OTOH, that probably means that you won't get a sale.

  Kapin said:

The thought of offering it on eBay fills me with dread. Although eBay gets the item out there in the market place, I'm not convinced it's safe. Now don't get me wrong I use eBay a lot to buy and sell items and overall my experiences are good; but we are talking about a valuable and treasured item here and not a DVD or the odd gift. Without listing all the drawbacks, because we all know them, I fear that I might not get paid even if I use Paypal.

Simple - don't ship until you do get paid. If you don't get paid, put it up again. :-)

  Kapin said:

Sometime ago I offered this sword to one of the big auction houses for sale. In short they weren’t interested, stating only that it wasn’t something they considered to be worthy of their stage. I kid you not!

Umm! Christies I take it? They are a bit like that about anything post 1900 - it's beneath their notice. OTOH, they seem to be unaware that Yasukuni swords have become collectable. In fact they tend to view all gendaito with disdain, on a par with gunto. My impression of them was that they were seriously up their own bottoms.

  Kapin said:

It’s time to move it on and let someone else enjoy it or study it. After all, it is one of only 500 reputedly made by Yasuhiro at Yasukuni.

Not at the moment. Hang on to it till the market recovers.

  Kapin said:

In addition, shipping such items is now getting difficult here due to my government’s strange ideas on the subject of weapons. Recent changes in the law have resulted in most of the Couriers refusing to transport such items for fear of falling foul of the law, due to their own ignorance.

So you declare it on a customs declaration as 'nihonto'. You haven't made a misleading statement - it is in fact perfectly accurate - but the jobsworth at the Post Office won't have a clue what you're on about. :-)

OTOH, tell him that it is a sword, and he or she will have a fit of the vapours and refuse to accept it, because it is a 'weapon'.

For domestic stuff you don't have to tell them what's in it, but if they get nosey and ask, tell them 'antique metalwork', 'used cutting tool' or some such description. What they don't know won't hurt them.

In general, jobsworths and idiot policies are for getting around, unless you want to be paralysed into inactivity by obeying short-sighted numbskulls.

  Kapin said:

Even eBay have revised their policy on the commerce of our beloved passion in my country.

So you log onto Ebay US and sell on there. There's more than one way of skinning a cat. :D

  Kapin said:

So, offering for sale and transporting such a valuable item is difficult and filled with uncertainty.

It's not that problematical - I do it fairly regularly.

Kevin

Funny coincidence. My tanto arrived in Canada today, according to my daughter, labeled 'industrial tool' and value 10,000 yen. No difficulty, but, I'd be upset if there was. It was unsolicited labeling. How would I explain? John

Hi all,

Talking of shipping into the UK.

I had a sword sent from USA clearly labeled (Antique collectable sword approx year of manufacture 1500 Bizen osafune school)Item arrived within 7 days.

Another labeled "Japanese sword" Held by customs for almost 4 weeks so far and i have had to make numerous phone calls and emails explaining why it is an antique and not a repro and asking me for evidence to prove this.(which i do not have as i have just bought it)

My advice is to label it accuratly and don`t try to sneak it into the UK as if they check it (which they always do) they will think you are pulling a "fast one" or smuggling and your address & postcode will be "blackmarked" from then on in and everything will get checked.

This from experience is the best way for me anyway.

regards

shan

Hi,

here is a sample of price for this swordsmith. however, aoi don't sold it yet........... may be little expensive .

http://www.aoi-art.com/gunto/08341.html

Aha!

Its worth noting that the lower 3rd kanji above the Higher quadrangle, to the left of the ovocular hyperthalmus has an atari oriented towards the 12 oclock position as opposed to 9 oclock on the true mei

I believe gentlemen..... this may be Gimei...... :lol:

Nah........ looks good to me ..though i did think the work was mostly in suguba......

shan

  shan said:

Talking of shipping into the UK.

Which is a whole different ballgame. :-)

  shan said:

I had a sword sent from USA clearly labeled (Antique collectable sword approx year of manufacture 1500 Bizen osafune school) Item arrived within 7 days.

Another labeled "Japanese sword" Held by customs for almost 4 weeks so far and i have had to make numerous phone calls and emails explaining why it is an antique and not a repro and asking me for evidence to prove this.(which i do not have as i have just bought it)

Yup! I haven't had a 4 week delay, but I did have someone send me a sword labelled 'Japanese antique', with no tariff codes. There was an interesting exchange of letters and emails, but it only took a week or so to get it out of Customs.

I don't know if they still are, but they were stopping every Japanese sword nationwide, without exception, in the hope of catching repros.

Their standard letter, BTW, is disingenuous - it gives a rather limited number of defences. I got involved in the consultation process, so I've got a copy of the Act on the computer.

  shan said:

My advice is to label it accuratly and don`t try to sneak it into the UK as if they check it (which they always do) they will think you are pulling a "fast one" or smuggling and your address & postcode will be "blackmarked" from then on in and everything will get checked.

Oh, agreed. However, they've got less grounds for stopping it than they suggest in their letter. It is exempt from the Act if it is antique, if it has been made before 1945, if it has been made in Japan by a licenced smith using traditional methods, if it is for educational purposes, if it is for sporting purposes (e.g. martial arts), or if it is for re-enactment. I think there's one or two other exceptions, but that's basically it. Oh and it only applies to curved blades over 55 cm.

Well, with that lot you could get a Chinese stainless steel wallhanger into the UK if you were bright enough to think how to use the defences. It is a very unsatisfactory bit of legislation. What's more, it leaves Customs in the position of allowing the recipient to self-certify. They have no way of knowing whether your description of 'antique' is valid or not; a bit of collusion between sender and recipient can't be ruled as impossible. After all, the Imperial Japanese Navy had stainless steel swords made, and those are exempt - how would Customs know that this stainless steel sword isn't one of those?

Kevin

Hi Kevin,

I will be brief because it is a little off topic but:

"where the weapon was made before 1954 or was made in Japan at any other time according to traditional methods of forging swords."

You are required to provide evidence to Customs in support of the "defence", and then within 20 days of the date on the letter or the "contents will be siezed and disposed of by HM revenue and customs"

So if you bought from abroad based on images,then how can you truly declare the item is antique if you have never seen the goods? especially if the other party does not want to help.

Hates them,my precious! Nasty Tricksy Hobbits !!

shan

  shan said:

I will be brief because it is a little off topic but:

"where the weapon was made before 1954 or was made in Japan at any other time according to traditional methods of forging swords."

 

You are required to provide evidence to Customs in support of the "defence", and then within 20 days of the date on the letter or the "contents will be siezed and disposed of by HM revenue and customs"

As I said, disingenuous, cos it doesn't mention all the other potential defences.

  shan said:

So if you bought from abroad based on images,then how can you truly declare the item is antique if you have never seen the goods? especially if the other party does not want to help.

 

Hates them,my precious! Nasty Tricksy Hobbits !!

In practice, you just tell them that it is, cos that is what it was sold as. :-) That's all I've done, and it appears to be evidence enough, hence my remark on self-certification (hence the weakness in the system). Evidence is an email, an invoice, an Ebay page or whatever. On the two occasions I've had to deal with them, they said "Fine! We've passed it to Parcelforce to deliver!" I did as an additional rider, tell them that they could get it independently verified at the V&A if they wished, or the To-ken Society, but they decided not to. OTOH, one, as I recall, had NTHK origami, which I pointed out to them.

Oh, I usually email a response back, with attachements, followed by a hard copy in the post.

Kevin