Grandfather's sword

Hi all!

I am new to the site and Stephen asked if I would post some images of my grandfather's sword. In response, I have uploaded a number of images to a site on my .mac account. Posting the images there allows easier access for you all and more images than would be manageable here. Here is the link:

http://web.mac.com/anne_brewer/Grandfat ... lcome.html

 

As you will find, I don't know a lot about the various components. As a place to start, I've done my best to document my meager knowledge. What I know comes from a brief appraisal of the sword blade many years ago. Any other information in the descriptions is largely the result of my research attempts. Amoung the resources used were Connoisseur's Book of Japanese Swords, Richard Stein's Japanese Sword site http://www.geocities.com/alchemyst/nihonto.htm , and numerous others.

 

Your assistance and thoughts will be greatly appreciated. I would love to solve the mystery of the sword!

 

Anne (aka Antelope)

Hi,

 

Anne,

 

First welcome on the board :D ,

Concerning the sword, it was forged by Omi no kami Minamoto Hisamichi, one of the best swordsmith of the Mishina school (lived in Yamashiro). This sword was made after the 12.27.1662 (date of his title reception)

Nice sword (so far) Anne, and thank you for researching all of the details... long blade it seems...

 

Can you get us some pictures of the blade itself..? hamon... kissaki (tip)... this may spark a bit of a discussion in the Nihonto section...

 

Cheers!

here you go, an oshigata to compare it to. This one from the Shinto-shu by Shibata

 

 

 

obviously the one on the left is the one to look at

Hi Auntie

 

Yep pretty nice sword you have there. Its too bad that someone unwrapped the Ito on the tsuka, if your looking to have it re wrapped correctly id give David McDonald a try, he has done a few for me and his work is top notch for stateside.

 

here's his link.

 

http://www.montanairon.com/tsukamaki.html

 

no need to send the whole sword just the tsuka with nuk's.

 

Tsuba has pine needle motif looks to be iron, tsuba guys can tell you more about it.

the same* looks good with the black lacquer the sanded to reveal the nodules, nice Koshirae all around.

 

Sencho is right we'd like to see pix of the blade as you may have seen in other post, full shots of the blade gives us the overall impression of the blade. out of saya, sans habaki, one where we can see the sori and sugata. Your grandfather had a good eye, as you do, nice slide show...now more blade!!

  Stephen said:

Hi Auntie

Are you two related?

  Stephen said:

no need to send the whole sword just the tsuka

I'd be very careful with that. Chances are it won't go back over the Nakago after the wrap, which by default should be very tight if done properly.

Guido NO! why do we have to be??? its from her antilope tag,

 

as far as the wrap goes id ask David first.

Ah..I get it now. Antelope = Ante = Auntie

I think Anne is less confusing

 

I too have been told many times that the tsuka when properly wrapped might be too tight to take the nakago after. Best to have the sword with it, although maybe some tsukamakishi might make up a form to replace the nakago.

We have a good post on this previously at viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1561 including some good info from Keith.

Love the way the NMB search fuunction is becoming an encyclopedia of many Nihonto subjects

 

Brian

Hi,

 

  Ford Hallam said:

here you go, an oshigata to compare it to. This one from the Shinto-shu by Shibata

 

[attachment=0]Omi no kami Hisamichi.jpg[/attachment]

 

obviously the one on the left is the one to look at

 

 

Nice first and second generation Hisamichi jointly made work.

yes, apparently these "gasshaku" works by father and son are not uncommon.

Hi,

 

That's true, but Nidai Hisamichi wasn't the son of the shodai only an adopted son. His father was Sandai Rai kinmichi.

thanks for that, Jacques, I didn't know that.

Yikes :? I'm confused. Are you all taking about my sword or the one in the image Ford posted? Thanks, in advance, for straightening me out!

 

Also, Ford you get an "A" for effort however, I'm sure WE ALL want to see a picture of you doing that headstand :D

 

Antelope

Anne,

 

In this case they are talking about the one in the control sample posted. It is a joint work, whereas yours is (hopefully) by the one in the left side of the pic (each smith signed one side of that example sword)

 

Regards,

Brian

Anne,

I am in the jewelry business and just wanted to say that I think your work is beautiful. I love the way you are using some of the old patination techniques. Beautiful!

Anne and all

 

has anyone ever heard of wax on the end of the nakago?

 

any new pix yet Antelope?

All,

 

Again, thank you for the time and thought given to helping identify the sword. I will write detail in the morning, but for now, I wanted to get the blade, hamon and other pictures to you via the updated website. Getting images of the hamon and blade took mw awhile - reflections, lighting and all that. Anyway, hope the pictures are satisfactory. The link is below:

 

Grandfather's Sword http://web.mac.com/anne_brewer/Grandfathers_Sword

 

I look forward to your discussion.

 

Anne

Hi Anne,

 

this is of course the bit we've all been waiting for...the heart of the matter.

 

From what I can make out it all seems to match. The hamon is particularly interesting and I'd guess it is full of activity. The grain looks to be very well forged and tight, no obvious flaws I can see. Even what I can make out of the boshi would seem correct. All in all it's in pretty good condition...well done Granddad.

 

This sword should make a perfect recovery, all it needs is a bit of tlc.

 

regards, Ford

Thank you, Ford. So glad that Dad's vaseline saved the day. Since the blade has been wiped of the vaseline, I applied a thin coat of mineral oil. Is that enough to protect it in the humid north texas weather we are having these days?

 

Regarding your attempts to see the boshi, let me post some other boshi images I have. Will crop and enlarge to get you a better detail shot.

 

Are there any other detail shots you'd like? As you saw, each image section of the blade is comprised of multiple shots. I can add whatever you'd like. I would just need a moment to size the images so they site isn't too much of a hog.

 

Anne

Hi,

 

Mineral oil is not good for Japanese swords. Vaseline oil works well.

Here is the link to the Boshi detail images:

 

http://web.mac.com/anne_brewer/Grandfat ... etail.html

Jacques,

 

Thank you for setting me straight. I thought I read about mineral oil in a Japanese Sword Care article. Hmmm... Am off to remove the mineral oil and re-vaseline oil the sword.

 

Thank you again.

 

Anne

Hi Anne,

 

sorry not much more to be seen In the larger images of the boshi. I'll upload an oshigata when I get a chance so you can see how it compares yourself. One little trick to help show up the hamon / boshi is to run a film of lighter fluid over the metal, then look along the blade while pointing it towards a light source. Obviously not a naked flame

 

I also don't think a fine mineral oil will do the blade any harm. Modern sword oils are essentially just that. I'd avoid machine or car oil though. The sort of stuff intended for domestic sewing machines is absolutely fine. Don't get the oil on the tang.

 

regards, Ford

Ford,

 

Thank you for the sword care info. It is from the pharmacy and is labeled "Mineral Oil USP", "Lubricant Laxative." Hopefully is does not function similarly for swords.

 

I'll try a picture on my own using your technique sans the flame. When reading another post, noticed the person was using sunlight vs. fake sunlight from a bulb. Is direct sunlight better when photographing the hamon?

 

Look forward to seeing your Oshigata when you have time.

 

Best regards, Anne

  anne_brewer said:

I thought I read about mineral oil in a Japanese Sword Care article. Hmmm... Am off to remove the mineral oil and re-vaseline oil the sword.

Anne, please don't do that! Mineral oil is widely used in Japan, what you read in the article is correct. OTOH, I've never heard about someone using vaseline (oil) on a sword.

 

Don't listen to everything you read here ...

Anne,

 

I've just realised, I posted the oshigata of the hamon and boshi with the mei, at the start of this thread. I thought I got a glimpse of the same outline ( of the boshi ) in one of the images you posted of the kissaki, in the smaller images actually. In any case, at this stage I would suggest that the sword deserves the "full treatment", ie, proper polish, new shrasaya, ( the habaki looks to be in perfect condition ) and submission for authentication. My money would be on it getting more than just hozon. Any thoughts on that, fella's?

 

About the confusion regarding mineral oil, there are, more crude mineral oils that would in fact be less desirable to use as they could stain the steel, but the sort of refined, delicate stuff we're advising using, and what you in fact obtained, is quite mild.

 

A few drops of clove oil are sometimes added to provide a pleasant scent.. and possibly a bit of nostalgia for old timers.

 

Regards, Ford

O.k., since the topic of what oil to use in sword care comes up yet again let me comment on it:

 

Traditionally vegetable oil was used, usually camellia oil (Tsubaki-Abura 椿油) with a few drops of clove oil (ChÅji-Abura ä¸å­æ²¹). It has a yellowish color, and strongly smells of cloves. It absorbs moisture, but gums up easily when dried. It's also mildly aggressive (which is good for cleaning swords in a less-than-perfect state of preservation), but quite messy when it soaks into the Saya.

 

Mineral oil (KÅbutsuyu 鉱物油) was, to my knowledge, used from the Meiji era on when mass-production of swords for the Japanese army started - it's cheaper and easily obtainable. It's clear, and thinner than vegetable oil, and doesn't deteriorate as fast; one also needs less of it compared to ChÅji-Abura (as ChÅji scented oil is called for short). It's also here to stay, and recommended by such famous polishers as the Fujishiros.

 

If you add ChÅji to mineral oil, it turns milky white - our French forumites know this effect from diluting pastis , so it's better left alone. The mineral oil, I mean, not the booze :D.

 

Those who are not tired yet of my ramblings can read my article on Bob Benson's website (http://www.bushidojapaneseswords.com/articles.htm [# 5]) which was also published by the JSS/US. But then again, maybe they all fell for my evil conspiracy ...

Thanks Guido, I have been looking for an explanation of the various oils, as there has been a lot of confusion lately. One of my acquaintances recently told me too that mineral oil can contain slight traces of acids, and said to use vegetable oil. However I also don't agree with that.

 

So basically Mineral oil is a petroleum product, and vegetable oil is an agricultural product.

That would lead me to think that there are varuious grades of mineral oil. I know there are light and heavy mineral oils, and the one that we use is light mineral oil?

The thin "sewing machine" oil that I use is a light mineral oil? I don't see any reason for that to have any traces of acids, so I go with your thoughts on this.

 

The confusion must come in with all the various forms that vegetable oil and mineral oil can come in. Pharmaceutical grade etc etc. I assume normal cooking oil is a vegetable oil..but you wouldn't use that on a sword. Vehicle oil is a heavy mineral oil? (called petroleum oil?)

 

Sorry to steer off topic like this, but I'll likely strip these from this thread into a new thread on sword oils so that we can finalise the subject once and for all.

 

Regards,

Brian

Hi,

 

My apologies,

 

When i said mineral oil is not good for blade, i was in french thinking, and in France "huile minérale" is oil for engines.

  Brian said:

The confusion must come in with all the various forms that vegetable oil and mineral oil can come in.

I, too, would like to hear from those with a background in chemistry (like Richard Stein) about this. The mineral oil used for swords looks to me very much like sewing machine oil; I dare to say that using transmission fluid might not be the best idea . Anyhow, on one of the oil flasks I own it says that it's æµå‹•ãƒ‘ラフィン, liquid paraffin, FWIW.