Need comments about my sword polishing

I have found the small bottle of oil in these Japanese sword cleaning kits to be a complete waste of money. When I put them on my blades, they just bead up. Light sewing machine oil also dos the same.

I tested automobile polish on one sword, found it safe, and then polished all my swords. Then someone told me that auto polish wax won't allow my blades to "breathe."

Now I am experimneting with Vaseline, which goes on smoothly and does not bead up. Yesterday, I saw a silicone cloth in a camera store.

I haven't tried silicone on my blades...yet.

Do any of you have comments? I know purists will condemn me for using auto wax on my blades, but they work!

Thanks.

HENRY USA

Henry,

Firstly, I think you need to clarify that you mean oiling and not polishing.

Unprofessional polishing is frowned upon officially by the forum, and I do not advocate any self-polishing here.

However your situation is oiling and preserving, and not polishing hopefully.

The provided oil and also light machine oil should work. If it is beading, then your blade has not been cleaned properly, and has a residue on it.

You need to apply the uchiko properly or wipe with pure alchohol to remove the residue first to prevent the beading.

Search the forum for "oiling nihonto" or "cleaning blade" and you will come up with a lot of info on this subject, including all the recommended oils etc.

I would not recomend car wax. You do not know what the long term effects will be due to the additives.

Just stick to the correct oil..making sure you clean it first properly, and solve the beading problem. Remember it is a very light coating of oil, I think you may be using too much.

Also..consider one of the better quality cleaning sets. Some of the cheaper ones have bad quality oil and uchiko.

Brian

The proper amount of oil to put on a blade is applied thusly:

Use white, unscented, not made from recycled fibers tissue paper or toilet paper, folded into a rectangle that will fold around the blade. Put just 3 or 4 drops of oil on the paper. Starting an inch above the nakago, with the paper wrapped around the back of the blade, wipe up towards the point and then go back to the same spot and wipe that last inch down towards the nakago. This ensures that you won't drag a rust particle from the nakago over the polished blade surface.

Next, use a clean pad of the same paper to wipe off the oil you just applied, using the same technique. The tiny amount of oil that remains after wiping is all that is necessary to protect the blade. If you use too much it will bead on the blade and eventually will foul the inside of the scabbard.

Grey

I only use 3 or 4 drops of clove oil on a kleenex tissue and it is enough to oil my big wakizashi, only need to make sure it is even and thin. Brian pretty said it all.

You 2 replied at the same time. :D

Apparently 3-4 drops of oil is unanimous

Grey said it all. Btw..don't use pure clove oil. The oil is just slightly clove scented, but we know what you meant Remy

Brian

Thank you all! Yes, what I really meant was oiling my blades, not polishing it!

I've been using auto wax for several years now. I think I will pick up some high quality clove oil at the next sword show. I keep each sword in a silicone rifle sack in a gun safe with a box of dessicant to absord any moisture.

Thanks again.

HENRY USA

Henry, if you started waxing the blades with auto wax before you tried oiling it, that's likely why the oil is beading. Besides the waxes, there may be other additives in there that may not be very miscible with the mineral oil.

Mineral oil will not dissolve wax as far as I know, though mineral spirits will dissolve both. So your mineral oil is probably rolling around on the surface of the wax rather than wetting the blade.

"Breathing" is not something that your sword will need to do provided that it is dry through and through. On the flip side, wax is very transparent to water vapor... water beads on it, but water vapor goes straight through. So it is not preventing any "breathing" anyway... nor is it being very useful in preventing water vapor from getting to the steel.

A thin coat of oil is a much better idea.

But first you are going to have to get whatever junk you put on your sword, off your sword, if you want to get to a traditional form of maintenance. I would recommend this as you don't really know what you are putting on the blade with the wax, and now it's probably in your shirasaya too...

Uchiko will over time probably remove most of what you have put on the blade, but you will really need a solvent to clean it. You should be using mineral spirits to dissolve the wax, don't use an alcohol. Do this in a well ventilated area and use latex gloves. Wet a rag, and rub the sword down, and keep turning the rag using a clean portion. Each time you do this you should strip some of the existing wax off.

Do that for a while, then dry the sword, use uchiko to clean the sword as would normal, and then oil with an appropriate weight mineral oil (i.e. choji oil).

But how could he clean the shirasaya? as you said, there might be some wax in there too now... :\

Hi,

But how could he clean the shirasaya? as you said, there might be some wax in there too now... :\

You can try with a cleaning gun brush 22 long rifle caliber (nylon and cotton only) i've used it for cleaning an old saya of a Kunishige blade.

Yep, that is a good idea.

I have used a .22 one, and an air rifle one before (.177)

Use a nylon brush, and you can wrap a cotton patch around the brush.

Work gently and before you do it, give the brush a few hard tugs to make sure it is securely attached.

You do not want the brush comming off at the bottom of the saya

I had that happen to a junk gunto scabbard, and it caused very real problems.

I don't think the saya is too contaminated, and I wouldn't go overboard though.

Brian

I've found shirasaya rather easy to split and reglue after cleaning. Some place in this forum we've discussed this before. Jim Kurrasch in his discussions on his site, I know someone has preserved it, was my inspiration on doing it. John

True John,

However re-reading the original post, I think we all assume it is a shirasaya, and not a normal laquered saya. I think we need to clarify that before we suggest splitting a nicely finished saya. I made the same assumption

Regards,

Brian

I agree that the contamination is probably minimal. I wouldn't worry about it unless it manifests itself somehow (i.e. more beading). If so the gun cleaning approach sounds good.

Remembering what you told us in "my attempt at sword polishing", I hope it's not a Black&Decker finish, that causes the beading of the oil. Why not having a short break before buying the next bottle of car wax or vaseline and reading a good book instead? My suggestion: "The connaisseur's book of Japanese swords" by Nagayama Kokan. It also includes a short chapter about sword-care.

Thank you all for your advice.

I will stop using auto wax and read about sword care. I suspect that if the old masters had auto wax and vaseline back in those feudal times, they would have used it!!

HENRY USA

Henry,

I suspect that if auto wax and vaseline did a Samurai sword any good, the old masters back in those feudal times would have invented them!!

Grey

I was about to pose a question along the same lines, the only difference is that the blades are in a display (museum) and is not stored in a scabbard. A freind of mine who works there said they coat the blades with wax (floor wax) because it holds the shine, displayes/appears better and will not damage the blade. I was shocked, but preserving and displaying is there buisiness. I had wanted to know if this is an accepted way of preminantly displaying blades, all I know about keeping my blades in good condition I've learnt from the Nihonto MB and wax has never come up before or I missed it. Anyone have knowledge on the mysterious ways of museum preservaton?

Pierre G.

Pierre,

I am pretty certain they are not using regular floor wax, and if they are, I think they should be strung up.

Likely they are using "renaissance wax" which is commonly used in museums, although I am also not too confident about using it long term on Nihonto. But it is used worldwide by museums, so can't be too bad I hope.

The traditional methods mentioned already have stood the test of hundreds of years though, and I see no reason to change them now.

Google renaissance wax, and you will come up with lots of info on it.

Hopefully that is what it is, and not floor wax

Brian

Hi,

thanks Brian, yes your most probably right about the type of wax. After having goggled the subject as you suggested, that must be it. I will check with him for more specifics, I just couldn't see a museum doing things that would potentially damage objects. I think the word "Floor" is what freaked me out about the wax thing. Strining up was the kindest thought that crossed my mind...launching a misguided rescue effort is what my initall reaction was, but those never end really well :D

As for me, I'll be sticking to the wipe, power and oil method.

Pierre (sigh of relief) G.

Hi All,

Recently there have been a couple of posts similar to this thread. The first question I find myself asking is "which museum is this?". Museum conservators etc, whilst usually very good at what they do, are not usually knowledgable about nihonto. Nihonto's raw materials and polishing process's are unique to Japan, therefore do not come under the usual rules of conservation of your average museum/art conservator.

It is up to us as responsible collectors of Japanese swords to inform other collectors new to nihonto, and museums without nihonto specialists in no uncertain terms that what they are doing is wrong. We do not know the long term effects of wax etc inside scabbards, but it is probably not good, given what we know already. Wax is sticky and likely to get waste particles etc stuck to it. It is also waterproof, so it does not disperse moisture, and could possibly trap it, making things worse.

Scabbards that have had wax etc inside them need to be sent to a professional scabbard maker, who will clean the blade and make a new scabbard, and a sunagi for the old koshirae one that is never to be used again, or in the case of an old shirasaya it should be disposed of.

Paul, these threads awakened the old British Museum's Nihonto Curator

that was sleeping in you ? :lol:

You should take a look at what are doing here in Italy to the Castello

Sforzesco's NihonTo collection and what the lack of funds makes to the

Stibbert's Nihonto, and what the love for laquer and hate for swords by

the curator is making at Ca' Pesaro's nihonto and...

Aaarghhh... I wish renaissance wax was our only problem..

Really, much better to rent a cargo and send them all back to Japan...

Hi Carlo,

I believe that the future of Stibbert Museum's collection of Japanese swords are in good hands. Riccardo Franci has been making semi-regular trips to Japan to study Japanese swords at the sword museum and with related craftsmen. They have also been conserving some of their works on these occasions too. It looks like they are spending money on the collection a little at a time, but most importantly on the education of their staff, who will undoubtedly in turn educate other members of the Stibbert Museum staff. These things take a little time, but they are on the right road. The future looks bright.

Best

Paul

Hi Carlo,

 

I believe that the future of Stibbert Museum's collection of Japanese swords are in good hands. Riccardo Franci has been making semi-regular trips to Japan to study Japanese swords at the sword museum and with related craftsmen. They have also been conserving some of their works on these occasions too. It looks like they are spending money on the collection a little at a time, but most importantly on the education of their staff, who will undoubtedly in turn educate other members of the Stibbert Museum staff. These things take a little time, but they are on the right road. The future looks bright.

 

Best

 

Paul

You met Riccado "Jeeg Robot" Franci ? Fantastic ! :D

Please help him whenever you can.

Young, motivated and knowledgeable. He and Civita are an

hope for Stibbert's NihonTo future. I wish Ms. Spadavecchia of the

Ca' Pesaro Museum in Venice had half the knowledge and dedication

toward NihonTo Riccardo has.

I think you'll like a pic of Riccardo with Marco Quadri at our last meeting at

Stibbert..

Maybe one day you'll meet Marco too at Mishina's house, so you'll

know how he looks like :