Does former ownership add value?

[Red Anjin]

Hi,

Quick question. Does the fact that a sword has previously been in an important collection (say the Compton collection) add value to the piece?

 

Thanks,

Red Anjin

[Ken-Hawaii]

Can't think of any reason why value would be added just because of the former collection. But the fact that the Nihonto would likely be extremely well-documented might add to the selling price, but not necessarily the value.

[Stephen]

Some put value on a major collection such as Compton, but some mistakes were made by the auction house, opinions now will change over the years and facts then will not be later. With all art provenance is everything...so if the Nihonto was owned by a Lord or higher expect to pay more on you dollar.

[Darcy]

If it was part of an important collection, then it does add to the value.

 

The two Tokubetsu Juyo Yukimitsu that were on my site, one of them was in the Kii Tokugawa collection, and the other was owned by the Ikeda for over 250 years. These add value because of the history, and that the Daimyo carefully gathered excellent blades. So the company they keep reflects on the quality.

 

Being part of an illustrious collection like Compton's does add value in a similar way. Compton like any collector had variations in quality, so it is possible to find the least important / weakest blade he had, but still there is some prestige associated with his collection and with other modern top level collectors. The same considerations apply, where someone with knowledge and devotion establishes a fantastic collection, the pieces that are in it carry the distinction of the refined company they kept going forward.

 

It's basically a stamp of approval in the same way that passing Juyo or Tokubetsu Juyo may give vs. a piece with no provenance. Also, the very fact of knowing the history is always a nice thing.

 

These facts of history may not matter to some collectors, so there is no valuation change in their eyes. On an individual basis then your own point of view dominates, but in the marketplace it's the sum of all individual opinions that controls the valuation.

[AndreasU]

Hmm,

 

even that I am new in this but my opinion is that it will not add any value.

Why should it? The sword is a masterpiece of the smith not somone elses.

It may add value if it was owned or manufactured for someone who was historically seen important (made for an emperor)

 

A pure "collector" e.g. Compton even he is well known is just a collector who did not ad any value to the sword. He was just lucky to get it earlier then someone else or simply had the money to get it.

 

So, I would not pay a cent extra for an "collector" name.

I would be willing to pay extra if the sword was made for someone special but theses swords are anyway still family treasures.

 

just my 50cent's

[Red Anjin]

Is there anyone that has a collection today on the scale of the Compton collection?

 

I've noticed the vast majority of the swords with papers available are Hozon, and a few Tokubetsu Hozon but nothing (in my very brief searches) above that.

 

Someone has got these other pieces squirreled away, or in a museaum, right?

[Stever]

There are plenty of Juyo around, and I bet there are even more in shops that aren't shown online. Here are some:

 

http://www.nihonto.us/JUYO%20TOKEN.htm

http://www.aoi-art.com/sword/sale/main.html

http://www.yakiba.com/swords25k+.htm

http://www.nihonto.com/3.4.07.html

Wish I had that kind of cash.

 

cheers,

/steve

 

added one more hope you dont mind Steve..

stephen c

[paulb]

As Darcy and Steven said provenance is significant. While it does not materially effect the sword the fact that it has been in a well known and reputable collection suggests firstly that it has been well looked after within that collection and secondly the collector concerned valued it and believed in its authenticity.

It is increasingly common (probably now even the majority of times) that we buy blades unseen based on images rather than "in hand" Therefore there is some comfort factor to know that a collector who has spent as much or more time than us studying the blade felt it was worth keeping in their collection. This comfort factor is worth a premium to many buyers.

regarding whether there are any collections of the magnitude of Doctor Comptons, I would doubt it, certainly not in the west. I think I read on Darcys website that there were currenty about 8000 juyo blades worldwide they certainly appear regularly on the better nihonto websites for sale but I cant remember ever seeing one offered on ebay or any other auction site.

[Darcy]

Yes, there are roughly 8,000 Juyo. I came to this number by counting the number of pages in the NBTHK index, getting an average sword count per page, and then extrapolating the years not covered by the index.

 

I would say give that number +/- 1,000 to be safe, it gives you at least the idea of the order of magnitude well.

 

Tokubetsu Juyo occur about 1 for every 10 Juyo, they are quite rare.

[Guest Nanshoku-Samurai]

Josh, two quick answers to your questions:

 

1. Yes it will add to the value for sure - if it didn't no dealer would be mentioning it otherwise.

 

2. Yes tehre are collections that might even be "better" than the Compton one (depending on ones own personal tase while it is hard to put a value tag on it) ... but most top notch collectors will stay private so hardly anyone knows about their collections There are for example Japanese collectors that own hundres of very high quality blades just to give an example.

 

Regards,

 

Max