Pat to learn? - Tsuba

[kissakai]

Looking at NMB tsuba threads and was surprised how may copies/fakes are around so I looked again at my tsuba to see which gave me doubts of their authenticity.

 

I have provided small images of any dodgy ones so the learned can point out the impostors and the genuine. I can provide more pictures including angle views for any tsuba that are on the borderline.

 

I’ve decided to concentrate on the more basic (hopefully) genuine tsuba as there is no real mileage in producing copies.

 

The last image is one I like very much so please don’t say it’s a copy but if you must then go ahead. To me this is honest no frills tsuba possibly by Kunisaku who may be an armourer and made around 1600 – 1700. The shape is a closed fist (kobushi gata). It took me ages to find these details out but that is their attraction

 

None of these tsuba owes me very much so there is no need to temper your views.

 

I hope I haven’t asked too much but with such excellent input it is hard not to use these resources

 

 

Grev UK

 

[Geraint]

Hi Grev.

 

I see no one has embarked on a reply so from my limited knowledge here goes. First, none of the tsuba are anything other than what they seem, Japanese and none as far as I can see are cast so you have genuine tsuba. There are quite a lot of tsuba around which are fine for mounting on a sword, which after all is what they were intended for, but perhaps not collectable in their own right. The condition is far from perfect, some better than others. For what it's worth here are my thoughts;

 

1 Wakizashi size? The horse looks rather nice and although we only have one face to go on this would look good with a little care and time.

2 Not a great deal to say here, is this the more interesting face? Again it's had a hard life and may look bettre after some TLC.

3 The carving of the tree is nice, not sure what the floral bit in soft metal is.

4 A pleasant tsuba of a fairly common theme, the work seems quite good.

5 I am assuming that this is a copper alloy and from the colour perhaps nigurome or yamagane. This appears to be quite early, ko kinko. Try exposing this to sunlight for a bit and see if the patina comes back. Whatever you do resist the urge to clean it.

6 Nice tsuba, a little TLC needed her too.

7 Another interesting tsuba, I don't think it is high quality but it suggests Higo influence to me.

8 Mountains and stream, not sure what school if any but of a type commonly found, great for mounting. (Which, by the way is collector speak for genuine but of little interest)

9 I don't know, it's Japanese but what it is escapes me.

10 Kinko and tired. A gentle clean with warm water and soap may get what looks like Brasso out of the engraved leaves and then expose to sunlight which may repatinate the shakudo bull.

11Your favorite and why not? Unusual design and signed.

 

If nothing else these thoughts may give the far more knowledgeable collectors on the board something to shot at so in the midst of that you may get some information. Bit like your last question really.

 

All the best.

[Soshin]

Hi Grev,

 

I like the last tsuba. The others are low end and/or in fairly poor shape. This is just my opinion. Many of the tsuba likely date from the Meiji Period or later. Number nine from the top strangely looks unfinished or a really poor copy of a Echizen Kinai dragon motif tsuba.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[kissakai]

I was beginning to wonder if anyone would reply, was it because they have no merit

I put them on to ask if they were copies and I know that they are of low quality

When dealing with these lower grade tsuba this is possibly the only place I can get some answers because they are not good enough to be listed anywhere else

So thanks David and Geraint for your comments - most appreciated and I've added a little more info

 

No 3 - I was told this may be fungus as the tree is clearly dead and may represent life rising from the dead

 

No 9 - I've shown the original image below

My comments are:

May be a blank ready for carving or the desire to leave it just as an outline

 

 

The second image shows the finished tsuba and I've carefully looked at the outlined and they are virtually identical - wish I had the finished item

 

 

Thanks again for your comments

Grev UK

[Lorenzo]

Interesting find, Grev

[MauroP]

Dear Grev,

my little collection of tsuba is quite similar to yours (and I'm not ashamed to admit that I bought also some very bad fake pieces). Anyway I have learned so much, and sometimes even from fake tsuba. Otherway what's the merit to collect museum grade tsuba? Provided one can afford much money, everybody can put together a remarcable collection, but true satisfaction, for me, is finding a pearl in the mud, and grasping knowledge even from marginal objects.

Bye, Mauro

[drbvac]

I wonder if in fact the outlined Kinai type dragon is an actual blank pre-carving as you suggest considering the amazing fit of the internal cut outs - guess there is no way to ever be sure - Maybe Ford or other s could comment whether this is how these would have been made or if someone just copied the outlines.

 

I am quite partial to Echizen dragons - have a signed one on a blade I have had for a long time and they are all pretty spectacular carvings

[kissakai]

Brian

Makes you wonder if some people made loads of different blanks which were then sold off to the true craftmen

 

Mauro

Your collection as mine may be quite presentative of a lot of collections - this is why I like this message board as the tsuba doesn't have to cost an arm and a leg to recieve some brilliant advice.

Years ago in Britain the superb and intricate funiture was superseded by the more rustic type (tastes change). I imagine a history with my tsuba, mounted and used and therefore basic and functional. I have one with no decoration, is convex and feels like a worn peeble in my hand - magic

 

 

Grev UK

[Lorenzo]

The second image shows the finished tsuba and I've carefully looked at the outlined and they are virtually identical - wish I had the finished item

 

 

Thanks again for your comments

Grev UK

 

 

QUICKLY!!!

 

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=13510

 

you can have it for a bargain.

[kissakai]

Thank you Lorenzo for the tsuba information

It was on hold which I am hoping is held for me on your recommendation

I would have also liked the other dragon tsuba but it had already gone

 

 

Grev UK

[Soshin]

Hi Grev UK,

 

Lorenzo makes a very good point. Please upgrade your collection if your want to turn this into a serious hobby. There are many fine tsuba listed on NMB and from dealer links at the top of the screen. The best approach I found is to study some books and go to some Japanese sword shows and develop your knowledge and figure out what you want to collect in terms of tosogu. Use the NMB to ask specific questions. I also used eBay to sell off all of the poor quality tosogu when I first started to collect. Then purchase what you want on the NMB, from dealers list at the top of the page, or at Japanese sword shows.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles