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Posted

Actually, the point I made on this tsuba was I thought it was repatinated, not cast. I am not sure what you are referring to here David.

 

Not many of us are rich men mate, it does not mean we give up. You seem to (correct me if I am wrong) purchase about 5 or 6 tsuba a year ? maybe more. If you think these all cost about 300 - 500 each ? then that would be somewhere between $2500 - $3000. If you just stopped and took a breath, and bought one tsuba at that level, you would never look back.

 

I have always collected by purchasing tsuba in the $500 - $1000 range, then after I have studied them, sell them off and buy one good item. Then I start again. It's the only way I can afford this.

 

Don't give up is all I say.

 

Rich

Posted

Hi Rich,

 

You very correct about this. I am not buying anything new until next year at the Tampa show and will save my money. Thank you for taking the time to reply and for clarification. I am not good paraphrasing others comments. I am going to stop doing this. I agree the tsuba was likely in poor condition an repatinated and saved from a rusty death by Skip. With this said if I keep it in my collection It will not be going to shinsa. Do you think the workmanship is consistent with late Kamiyoshi school work or a Akasaka copy circa mid Edo Period? Thanks again for the time and effort you put in to teaching me from afar.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

  • 3 weeks later...
Posted

Hi guys,

I am home from the San Francisco show with the final word on this tsuba. 5 or 6, including Skip Holbrook, took the time to look at it and we all think, without doubt, that this is a cast copy. The reasons already mentioned in this thread were brought up but the clincher was the discovery of 2 air bubbles in the casting, one of which passed clear through the sukashi wall very deep in a corner. Real forged tsuba can have lineal separations in a fold but they can't have air bubbles.

The tsuba is returning to Skip who wants to study it so he doesn't make the same mistake again. And I have studied it; I also don't want to remake this mistake.

Cheers, Grey

Posted

Thanks for the update Grey, and well done to Ford and Lorenzo for pick this up.

If anything..this cautions all collectors about the level of fakes out there. These are fairly modern fakes I think, and done purely to deceive for monetary gain (prior to any collectors here acquiring it)

Many of these will fool even seasoned collectors. Knowledge and study is the key to reducing the risk. The rest is a bit of luck :)

Good to see sellers who stand behind their items too...well done to Skip and Grey for being honest sellers.

 

Brian

Posted

It still leaves the rather troubling fact that this cast fake was made from a mould taken off the example in Mr Ito's book. A close comparison of the photo's David provided and those in the Ito book establish that as a fact.

Posted

Such implementing Ford-(and thank you honestly for leveling this minute but important detail to surface)-we all can be quite shure,this may not an (such?)simple bargain affair.

Those who may indicate(or at least do have an idea)(about) the source,will hopefully be more aware.

(thank you Ford for this short statement!)

Pretty Ugly Game!

(But be aware-there are some here who still recognise pretty well in fact-Don´t take us for idiots!)

 

(this is meant to that person who "created" this object!)

 

 

Christian

Posted

Thanks Brian

 

It's nice to have at least some acknowledgement for one's effort to help others avoid making mistakes like this. Having said that, and as you and I have discussed, it's a pretty thankless task in general and the resentment and offence that is often caused in pointing out fakes does make me wonder why we should bother. :dunno:

 

cheers,

 

fh

Posted

Hi Ford,

we have to bother because we care about the subject and are trying to ensure it has a future (dont I sound pompous in the morning!) It is always painful to learn you have made a mistake or an error in judgement, we all like to think we know better. It must be better for such errors to be highlighted by people who care about both subject and person than by a faceless dealer/buyer at some point in the future.

I agree that it can be a thankless task but if no one takes up these issues the subject degenerates and ultimately dies.

Posted

Morning Paul,

 

yes, we do care... probably too much sometimes :roll: ;)

 

...it can be a thankless task but if no one takes up these issues the subject degenerates and ultimately dies.

 

You mean like making tsuba? :crazy: :glee:

Posted

producing art is never wasted. unappreciated, thankless and frustrating yes but in the bigger picture never wasted. regrettably the bigger picture rarely feeds someone.

In the words of my dear old Dad "Dont let the bastards grind you down!!"

Posted

And without you guys and the NMB how many of us would have made the same mistake, only to discover much later that we had been fooled. Discovery learning is a powerful tool, but for those of us who have learned from this thread, a big Thank You! That goes for those who answered the questions and those who asked.

Posted

Hi Everyone,

 

I would like to take a moment to thank Ford and Lorenzo for pointing out what was at the time a new addition to my collection. Please continue to help other people in your free time on NMB. I am also thankful that I posted the tsuba on NMB to allow people to provide feedback about it. It would have been likely years before I would have learned the truth about the tsuba otherwise. Grey and Skip have been really great with allowing me to return the cast tsuba and exchange it for another tsuba from the same large collection. I will be sure to post the new replacement tsuba as I am sure It will be a interesting research subject.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

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