Here's an oddball

[IanB]

All, Here is something, on sale in Japan, I have never seen before. A steel or iron plate measuring 23 x 27cm ( 9" x 10.6") and weighing 940g (2lbs) with a kamon that looks as if it is inlaid in brass. At each corner are nicely shaped brass bosses carrying brass rings. On the inside these bosses have sturdy split shanks opened out over a brass washer. At the top the brass rings carry loops of silk cord, those at the bottom red silk tassels. The vendor states that it is a reinforcing breastplate. I could visualise the takahimo of a dou being threaded through the two loops at the top and the tassels being anchored by the obi, so it is possible that it could be worn over a regular dou. If this is correct, it would make it the equivalent of a European plackart - a heavy reinforce, usually bullet-proof, that fits closely over and fastens to the breastplate. Similar, but more complex reinforces were also used over regular armour for jousting. If this is indeed a reinforce for a dou it is new to me. The shape is about right, it looks old and it would work. The only thing that bothers me is that the shanks of the rings are rather prominent and would prevent the plate fitting closely to the dou.

Any other ideas as to what this might be?

Ian Bottomley

[estcrh]

Ian, I saw this to, first thing I noticed is that the tassels look like the type that were attached to the bit of a samurai horse, otherwise it is entirely possible that this could be a version of the trauma plate, but I did not see any holes for the attachment of a cloth or leather backing which you would expect in order to protect the armor worn underneath if it was worn as said.

 

Modern steel trauma plate that fits into a pocket of a bullet resistant vest.

 

[IanB]

Eric, Yes, this is really what I was getting at with regard to the shanks of the rings - they would really scratch or chew up a breastplate. Curious.

Ian

[Bugyotsuji]

Dang, if only I had seen this yesterday. Spent half the day with an expert on armour. I don't even know if he has an e-mail address... :|

 

Maybe nothing related, but I saw a somewhat similar iron plate the other day with a Mon on it that was a kind of overlarge Gyoyo.

[estcrh]

Translated description and images of the back.

Portable family crest Hanabishi defense bullet "breastplate" Kikomi armor armor armor works, rare work, is board defense bullet "breastplate" Kikomi type. Curved, with a tailored steel sheet, Makie was the "family crest Hanabishi" is a work lacquer finish. On all four sides, with a string of brass fasteners, and was attached directly to the (s) minute chest you think. (Complement after straps) ■ Size 23.0 cm Weight 940 g universe 27,0 cm left and right

 

[uwe]

I can`t imagine, that the plate can be fixed in position properly, during intensive movement , only by dint of this four looped brass rings Moreover, the absence of a backing in combination with the prominent shanks, could indicate a more "static" usage. Maybe i`m wide of the mark :?

Uwe

[Bugyotsuji]

Eric, if you can post the actual Japanese maybe we can come up with a less confusing translation.

[estcrh]

Eric, if you can post the actual Japanese maybe we can come up with a less confusing translation.

lets see. 武具鎧具足　着込み「胸当て」　花菱家紋　弾丸防御　携帯型

□商品詳細

武具鎧具足　着込み「胸当て」　花菱家紋　弾丸防御　携帯型

　

作品は、稀少作品、着込み型「胸当て」弾丸防御板です。

湾曲した、一枚鋼板仕立で、「花菱家紋」を蒔絵した

漆仕上げ作品です。

四方に，黄銅の紐留金具が付き、胸部minute(s)に直接装着したものと

思われます。（紐後補）

 

■サイズ

天地　27，0ｃｍ　　左右　　23.0㎝　　Weight　940グラム

[Bugyotsuji]

Ah, many thanks Eric. That is relatively easy, especially as it contains a lot of repetition. If no-one else does it first, I'll translate it in a couple of hours when I get home.

 

What was in the slot where the word minute(s) has appeared? I am just curious as to the original word as the English could be minutes in time or very small (minute)... oops, forget it, I just go it! Must have been 分 of mune-bubun 胸部分 which actually means the breastplate part or section.　

 

As with most J auction descriptions, a masterpiece of obfuscation, repetition of the obvious, and avoidance of serious information.

[Bugyotsuji]

Description of merchandise:

 

Weaponry, sets of armor, extra layer (breast plate) Hanabishi Kamon, bullet-proofing, portable type.

 

The piece is a rare extra-layer breastplate bullet-proof plate.

 

Curved one-layer steel construction decorated with the Hanabishi (flower diamond) Kamon, finished in lacquer coating.

　

Into the four corners are fixed brass/bronze (yellow copper) cord fastenings, so it may have been attached directly to the breastplate section. (Strings are a later addition)

 

Size: Height 27 cm, width 23 cm, weight 940 g

[estcrh]

Piers...thats pretty much what I got from it. Well now what? Know any armor experts in Japan who may have an opinion, it is not every day that you see a possible unknown type of armor defense.

[Bugyotsuji]

Well, I can say no more than what I said earlier, until I go and see the man and get another look at it and possibly a shot or two.

 

In the meantime I have been having fun trying to find out why machine translation is so bad, and what causes the off-the-wall wording.

 

One is the word "universe" which comes from the dealer's unusual way of describing 'vertical' size, or height. He wrote Tenchi, literally "heaven to earth" and the computer came up with universe.

 

Another is "minute(s)", hedging the computer's bets on singular or plural of a minute in time. Actually as I said, it is not minute at all, a 60th section/part of an hour, but a section or division or part of a an armour.

 

I love the "you think" which is a clever guess of the computer to try and introduce person (which is not usually stated in Japanese) to make the English more realistic-sounding. Sadly it chose the wrong one. Actually the phrase 'to omowareru' means 'it is thought' so in this case no person was actually necessary, although it could have been translated as 'I think' or 'We think' or 'People think' or more closely 'Experts/historians/scholars think'.

 

The computer uses the word 'board', unaware that this word is usually associated with wood. 'Plate' works better with steel.

 

Finally problems with the word 'after' in 'complement after straps'. Complemented with straps later...?

[estcrh]

Piers, I am glad for any translation, even if flawed I was able to get the basic information and as in many cases the seller really is just guessing, if you find any further information that would be great.