Symbols in TSUBA design

[ROKUJURO]

Good evening, gentlemen!

 

In my small TSUBA collection I have three of them with symbols of unknown meaning. Hopefully the experts here can enlighten me.

 

The first one was bought as OWARI and it shows KIKU elements and some triangle shapes. Could that be MON or is this unusual with OWARI?

 

Another one is a small KO-TOSHO. Meaning of the KO-SUKASHI?

 

 

The third TSUBA has elements of YAMAKICHI BEI, I think, but the symbols are not clear to me. KUMOGATA (Bridge)? Clouds?

 

YAMAKICHI.doc

 

Any helpful information is welcome and appreciated.

[ROKUJURO]

The third photo did not work, I'll try again.

 

[Brian]

Yes..it did work....why are you uploading a pic as a .doc file? :?

Also, you did well with resizing the first one, and then lost the plot on the second. Can we resize pics a bit so as not to have huge files for no reason?

Here is the one from the .doc file:

 

 

Brian

[ROKUJURO]

Yes..it did work....why are you uploading a pic as a .doc file? :?

Also, you did well with resizing the first one, and then lost the plot on the second. Can we resize pics a bit so as not to have huge files for no reason? ....

Thanks for your help, Brian!

 

This is all new to me - my first steps with pictures, and feeling very lost! Please size everything down as you like!

[Geraint]

Dear Jean.

 

For what it is worth here is an image of inlayed clouds on a teppo barrel which looks like one of the sukashi on your third tsuba.

 

All the best

[Baka Gaijin]

Good afternoon all.

 

In the last tsuba, could the sukashi be stylised Genji - mon and wisp of smoke be related to the Incense game?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C5%8Dd%C5%8D

 

Cheers

[Clive Sinclaire]

Gentlemen

On the Owari tsuba, I have heard one interpretation that says that such "partially eclipsed" kiku, in some cases, may indicate royalist sympaphies and covetly represents the shogunate eclipsing and limiting the Imperial powers.

Clive Sinclaire

[falconj]

Jean C,

I think Malcolm is very close to the theme of this tsuba, I have one similar which was attributed to a 'genji tale theme' tsuba,

very interesting that this one you have is seen with the 'smoke theme' as well

regards

john f

[Soshin]

Hi Everyone,

 

The design is called genjishiko in Japanese. They are symbols associated with different sections of the Tale of Genji. I have a Umetada Myoshin tsuba made with this design. The symbols are for different aroma used in Kodo to tell the stories such as the Tale of Genji. There are many fine Umetada Myoju with this design. I will post photos of the tsuba after work.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[ROKUJURO]

Gentlemen,

 

all these posts are very helpful for me, thanks a lot! I would never have come close to these explanations, a lot of knowledge besides swords and armour is gathered here in the forums!

[Baka Gaijin]

Afternoon all.

 

Here's a direct link to the full Genji - mon.

 

They represent the 54 chapters of the Tale of Genji, however in this context represent a particular fragrance.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Genji ... ements.svg

 

Yours looks like a partition of Chapter 44 Genji - mon (Takekawa - Bamboo River)

 

Go to the zoom control and in the centre of the ochre coloured page you will see a shape quite similar to your sukashi

 

http://via.lib.harvard.edu/via/deliver/ ... HUAM199844

 

Cheers

[Alan Morton]

Hello there John, {F]

 

nice to see you are getting some better pieces in your collection and it

 

is improving.

 

Are you ready yet to part with that square dragon tsuba yet Ichi??? something

 

so you can buy more good things like this one you have posted.

 

AL xxx

[Soshin]

Hi Everyone,

 

Here is the Umetada Myoshin who would sometimes sign his work Umetada Hikojiro (埋忠彦次郎) like my tsuba. The second mei on the ura side is for Umetada Myoei who's artist name is Shigenaga (重長) the son of Myoshin. This tsuba was likely made by both father and son. Notice the two large Kodo Genjishiko symbols above and below the nakago-ana. The only problem is the surface of the tsuba has been burned. It was added to my collection like that as I focus my collection on the Umetada school. The multi-layer construction of the plate is also clearly visible because it was in a fire.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[Baka Gaijin]

Morning all,

 

Purely just for fun.........

 

If we try to read the Genji - mon from the Omote side of David's Tsuba:

 

The Genji - mon are formed from five vertical linear bases, so if you count the bottom one it has six, which I suggest means an overlap as in Chapter 11

 

The top one looks similar to Chapter 4.

 

And further for fun, the names of the Chapters are 4 - Yugao (Evening Face) & 11 - Sakaki (Sacred Tree)

 

 

However, if we read it from the Ura side, we are into a new set of possibles.....whatever the meaning, it's a fine Tsuba.

 

Cheers

[ROKUJURO]

David,

 

thank you for showing your UMETADA TSUBA for comparison. It is a nice one, and although burnt, it still has everything that makes a good reference TSUBA! As they were very likely not quenched and hardened, might it not be possible to restore it by just carefully removing the scale? Just a curious question.

 

As to my TSUBA, I have thankfully received helpful input to two of them, but the KO-TOSHO seems to remain a riddle not only to me. I am still behind it and looking for information. Could it be that part of the SUKASHI was added at a later date, thus obscuring the symbols meaning? What do yo think?

[Baka Gaijin]

Good morning Jean,

 

The small tsuba design looks like a working on the popular buddhist Gorinto theme or maybe Ishidoro:

 

Check out the links:

 

http://www.onmarkproductions.com/html/5 ... stone.html

 

http://www.onmarkproductions.com/html/ishidoro.shtml

 

Cheers

[Soshin]

David,

 

thank you for showing your UMETADA TSUBA for comparison. It is a nice one, and although burnt, it still has everything that makes a good reference TSUBA! As they were very likely not quenched and hardened, might it not be possible to restore it by just carefully removing the scale? Just a curious question.

 

As to my TSUBA, I have thankfully received helpful input to two of them, but the KO-TOSHO seems to remain a riddle not only to me. I am still behind it and looking for information. Could it be that part of the SUKASHI was added at a later date, thus obscuring the symbols meaning? What do yo think?

 

Hi Jean C.,

 

I don't think anything can be done for my Umetada tsuba short of having the surface completely cleaned and a new patina applied. The end result might not look much better then its current state. I was able to control any active rest on the tsuba surface to prevent pitting. I am not sure about the ko-sukashi design of your Ko-Tosho tsuba. I have two Ko-Tosho tsuba in my collection and one the design was a bit hard to figure out while the other was very clear. Please let me know and I can post photos of them as well. Here is a scan of a famous Umetada Myoju tsuba done in brass with a Genji-mon ko-sukashi design.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[ROKUJURO]

......Please let me know and I can post photos of them as well.......

David,

 

thank you for sharing! Gorgeous TSUBA, and it helps to understand the theme of mine.

 

Yes, I would appreciate to see your other KO-TOSHO TSUBA, if you don't mind.

[Soshin]

Hi Jean C.,

 

Here is a black and white photograph I have of one Ko-Tosho tsuba I have. The ko-sukashi design is clearly of a war fan or gunbai. An identical tsuba was in Sasano's second book on Sukashi tsuba page 48.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[ROKUJURO]

Here is a black and white photograph I have of one Ko-Tosho tsuba I have.......

It is always a pleasure for me to see the simple yet artful TSUBA of this time and it's style. One can see from the photograph how it was made!

 

I like this one, thanks for sharing!

[ububob]

Useful design works for me are Japanese Art Motives by Maude Rex Allen; Legend in Japanese Art by Henri Joly and Asiatic Mythology by J. Hackin, et al.

[Soshin]

Hi Jean C. and Bob H.,

 

For your information the Ko-Tosho tsuba I posted above has just been published in the Japanese Sword Society of the United States (JSSUS) Newsletter Volume 44, No. 3 page 25 figure 2.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles