Ujisada Yari

[deskjet]

does anybody have any information about asmith UJISADA actual sicniture on yari tang Hi shu ju Ujisada" posibly 18 century ,not sure what the hi shu ju means .i understand there were smiths from OWARI and MINO that used that name the blade is unpolished but i understand that it is sugaba. Any information would be appeciated

thanks

Anthony

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie ... &rd=1&rd=1

[Stever]

I'm just a noob, so wait 'till others chime in for more certain info, but I *think* "hishu ju" means "of a Hi- province" or something like that. Similar to "Bishu ju" meaning from Bingo, Bizen, etc., Hishu should mean from Hizen, Higo, or Hida.

 

Note: I've also seen info that contradicts this to some extent; smiths from Hitachi would be "Joshu" apparently? Would one of the more experienced members care to enlighten?

 

Hopefully someone else knows something about that particular smith. That's a pretty nice yari. I'm assuming you're the buyer?

 

Cheers,

[deskjet]

Hi thanks for the input Steve, yes iam the buyer ,hopefully should polish up nicely

 

Anthony

[Stever]

I'd love to see some pics after you get it polished, if you can.

 

Small update on the previous info. Been looking into it (that Hitachi anomaly was bugging me), and it turns out my misunderstanding seems to have been due to me thinking in English, when it's a kanji thing. See the following link:

 

http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/kanji/prov.htm

 

So it would seem the smith that made your yari is from Hizen or Higo, but not Hida (the "Hi" kanji is different). Yet another "Hi" kanji in Hitachi is pronounced differently with the "shu" kanji (or at least, that's how it looks to me). Interesting how the pronunciation changes with kanji depending on it precedes (or is preceded by?). I'd be interested to know if there are rules that govern this, or if it's just a huge memory exercise, lol?

 

Cheers,

[BC Smith]

Hi Anthony, another noob here but I do believe that the Hishu part of the mei refers to a province on Honshu island. If i'm wrong then others more knowledgeable will correct me.

 

Regards

 

Bernie

[Stever]

Hmmm. Now I'm really confused, and hope someone here can straighten this out, as that is in direct contradiction to what I thought (Hizen and Higo being on Kyushu, Hida on Honshu).

 

Help, someone, please?

 

Thanks,

[BC Smith]

Hi stever, I do believe you are on the right track, hishu and hida being the same province, hida I think is the older name, from what I could make out from the pic of the kanji it refers to hishu on honshu rather than hishu on kyushu known as hizen, as the kanji is different to the one in the mei pic. Well they are to me! :D

The pic might explain it better

 

Regards

 

Bernie

PS the more I look at it I think I was wrong in the first place and the mei irefers to hishu on kyushu, which would mean hizen or higo that'll teach me to squint at the screen rather than find where I put my glasses :lol:

[Stever]

Ah, now it's making more sense. I think we're talking about exactly the same thing, just in different terms. I don't think hishu (or bishu, or soshu, etc) is an actual province per se, but refers to a collection of provinces. I focused in on the "hishu" provinces of Hizen and Higo, as they use the same kanji as the one in the mei, whereas Hida uses a different kanji.

 

Cheers,

[Ted Tenold]

Hishu is also Higo province. The character "Uji" is heavily used in the Ujifusa and Ujisada lines of Owari and Osumi groups working in the Mino style and there was a great deal of confluence of smiths from Owari, Osumi, Higo, Mikawa, and Satsuma.

 

The eighth generation of which I had a katana by, was originally from Kumamoto (Higo) and trained with Hoki no kami Masayoshi, one of the two leading Satsuma smiths, the other being Motohira. He's listed in Hawley's as being a Satsuma smith, but with a note "from Higo", a given name of Takei Sadayoshi and being part of the Masayoshi school.

 

There were eight generations of Ujisada with the first (Izumo no kami Ujisada) the creator of the Juyo Bijutsuhin "Ikkoku Ujisada". This school is gathered in the Ganmaku school of the Mino tradition. Izumo no kami Ujisada, the shodai, was the brother of Wakasa no kami Ujifusa, and they the sons of Seki Kanefusa. Hawley's lists an Ujisada, from Higo, signing "Hishu Kumamoto ju Ujisada, working about 1781-1789, so I'd venture this is your guy and likely follows the same kind of pathways of originating in Higo, but then migrating into either Osumi, Owari, Satsuma, or perhaps all of them. The ebb and flow of these Mino guys makes tracing any one line very difficult, and even when they get papered, many times it doesn't document the generation or period.

 

If it were in polish the work might also point to a little more clear identification. The Ganmaku followed the "Kanefusa Ha" also called "Kenbo Midare" style of hamon, while the Satsuma smiths worked toward the Shizu Kaneuji style. Some like the eighth generation worked in both with their cross training. Tough to nail it down much more than this.

 

Hope it helps.

 

*Edit* I realized this morning that I put the Tadayoshi school in Higo. Whoops, don't know where that came from... Hizen is Tadayoshi, sorry for the geographic misplacement. Most embarassing...

[deskjet]

I would Just like to thank everybody for there input on this subject it has proved to be very interesting as soon as i have the yari polished(a few months yet iam sure ) i will post some pictures.

Thanks again

Anthony

[deskjet]

:D here are some pictures of recently polished yari (polished by Van Damme in Belgium )and a stunning bark effect saya..pictures not brilliant ..it must be almost as hard to photograph as it is to polish...well maybe not!!

 

Anthony

[Bugyotsuji]

Congrats Anthony. A lovely looking yari!

[Brian]

A year later, but at least it got polished, and good to see the results :D

Very nice!

 

Brian

[deskjet]

yes thanks ,it has turned out nicely it is very useful having someone like Vandamme in europe .he has made a first class job and i am very pleased.He is also WAKIZaSHI ZUTSU made from aoe (mother of pearl ) A very long job ,i will post pics as soon as it is finished .

thanks

Anthony :D