Have swords ever broken because of a rusted nakago?

[Drago]

Hi,

 

not removing the oxidation from the nakago is basically rule number 1 when collecting Nihonto. So far so good, and considering the look of many old blades this even seems to have been a tradition when the swords were still in actual use.

 

What I'd like to know: In my so far short time as a budding collector I've seen a couple of blades with terribly rusted nakago. Have there ever been reports of swords breaking during battle/practice because the nakago was rusted too much? It doesn't matter whether the nakago broke completely or just the area around the nakago-ana...

 

Thanks.

[sanjuro]

I have read of swords being broken during use at the mekugi ana, but never an account of a sword breaking specifically because of a rusted nakago.

May I ask what is it you are trying to establish?

When one considers it would take a few hundred years for a normal nakago to rust to the point of weakness that it would fail and break, and that no individual nihonto was ever intended to last in continual use for such a protracted period of time, then it is not surprising that there are few if any such failures recorded.

A nakago that is merely left alone or receives normal care and is allowed to deteriorate normally reaches a point when the rust becomes inactive. Long before this time the blade if it is of any quality has been retired from use and is kept only as an heirloom and is no longer subjected to the stresses of combative use, hence it is not likely to fail in this respect.

[Drago]

May I ask what is it you are trying to establish?

 

Oh, nothing in particular. Just being curious is all.

 

I know that good blades were reitred to the status of an heirloom/piece of art after a while, but when you read about famous samurai using old blades...

[Ken-Hawaii]

Tobias, Keith is correct that rust only builds to a certain point/depth/extent before the underlying iron is no longer "visible" to atmospheric oxygen. The term for this is natural passivation. So unless the rust was continuously removed, I can't see how the nakago could erode to the point where it would be a failure point.

 

Ken

[Lindus]

Or.......

Roy

[Drago]

Waoh, that is something I haven't seen before. Is that yours? If so, can you give a little more info (what does the signature say, where did you get it, is there a story?)

[Jean]

Tobias,

 

It is an easy one, try to make an effort :D

 

http://www.jssus.org/nkp/index.html

 

As you can see not a rust matter. Once you have hold/wielded tenth of sword you will see it is almost impossible.

[chrstphr]

I would imagine that one is from a sword that was ruined on purpose. You can see the deformity in the metal.

 

Chris

[sanjuro]

Why would you want to keep such a thing? Its like collecting shrunken heads or severed fingers.

 

One question........ is it gimei??????? :lol:

[Lindus]

Mei reads...Bushu Shimohara Hiroshige {1716-80}

 

And whats wrong with shrunken heads may I ask sir they go well with our members of parliaments shrunken brains.

Guess from the fingers comment you were in Vietnam at some period.

 

Yes,my proud possession, came after a joker phoned me to say he had a Japanese sword for sale,asked the length,reply "short" so my rule in those days was ,dont ask to many question prior to getting there. Also tempted me with an "Antique Japanese Armour".

The Armour was a WW2 Japanese sniper body armour and Helmit, the short sword..................

 

Roy

[kusunokimasahige]

On the Yahoo JP auction site there are more and more broken swords for sale as well as nakago containing mei.

 

I think that everything which is remotely related to Nihonto is collectible for some...

 

KM

[Lindus]

Hi KM

Let me have a link to the dogs, have a chap who is looking for tired or broken swords.

Regards

Roy