Teppo mei!

[cabowen]

Strong, stable, and tough wood, used also for plane bodies....

[Viper6924]

After I adress the horrible "cleanup-job" done to the barrel I think it will be a rather good looking old gun in my collection. Here´s some pics of the amazing woodgrain. If only my IKEA-furniture could sport this patina...

 

Jan

[Bazza]

  Viper6924 said:

I´ve been looking into the nanban-steel that this gun is made with. The only ref I find in my limited arsenal about Japanese firearms is a gun that was on display in New York at the Met.

It was a matchlock used by Tokugawa Ieyasu. It was made by Noda Zenshiro Kiyotaka in 1612. Forged in three layers "So-maki-bari" (thanks Piers). He used sword steel and imported irons "nanban-tetsu.

So I guess the samuari didn´t consider import steel a bad thing in guns, when even the big boss himself carried one. Is there any good ref-sites on the web regarding this an other fact about teppos?

 

/Jan

Jan, All,

I've enjoyed this thread immensely. I note your teppo has a hole in the stock for the fire-cord to go through. I have only ever seen 'in my hands' one teppo with this feature and I think it is somewhat rare. Unfortunately it went to someone with more financial clout than I can muster. You mention Noda Zenshiro Kiyotaka as a gunmaker - this is none other than the famous swordsmith HANKEI - see here for a summary of his career http://www.touken.or.jp/english/translation/639.htm

 

I'm reminded that I have three teppo I've been "gunner" present here. Two of these have the NIJU MAKIWARE ('two-wrap') inscription. I'm displaying these guns at our local antique arms meeting tomorrow night, so I'll take at least a picture of the three on stands.

 

Bestests,

BaZZa.

[Viper6924]

Bazza; Thanks for the info about Hankei. This is the reason I love this forum. If a thread lives long enough you can get a whole lot of info that is almost impossible to find anywhere else.

Please take some pictures (more than one :D ) of Your teppos tomorrow. It´s great for references.

 

Thanks again!

 

Jan

[Bugyotsuji]

Beautiful woodwork. Someone on this site mentioned on another thread that when the wood is 'quarter cut' those jewel-like patterns can be seen at their best.

 

Bazza, good luck with your show this evening, with the Niju-Makibari.

 

PS The diagonal matchcord canals in the butt behind the lock are not really uncommon. Perhaps 30 or 40% have them, I am guessing. I sense they are a later refinement. Matchlock pistols have them too. Some guns even have two holes there to further prevent the cord from slipping. (My 1847 Kumamoto Castle long gun has two, for example.)

[Viper6924]

Piers; it would be great if You had some pics to share of Your teppo-collection. Either direct here on the forum or in a PM. It helps a lot to have pictures for future ref. So if You have some sparetime...

 

Jan

[Bugyotsuji]

Jan, I have hundreds of pics of teppo from around Japan, but my own "collection" of guns is now stabilized at an easy four. (Well, plus two powder testers and a Chinese three-barrelled pole gonne.)

 

I have posted pics of the above several times in different contexts around this forum, mostly in This Week's Edo Period Corner, where there have been long and healthy debates on teppo-related topics. To read the thread would take hours, so just flip through the pics, or run a search on Hinawa-ju, teppo, matchlocks, Tanegashima, Kuyomon, etc.! :lol:

[Bazza]

  Bugyotsuji said:

Bazza, good luck with your show this evening, with the Niju-Makibari.

 

Ahh, thanks for that Piers. Now. I've got some photos and I'm going to puddle around trying to attach them. These are just the display shots with self-explanatory titles. I'll try and do the bbl and stock etc inscriptions later.

 

Regards,

BaZZa.

[Bazza]

And here are the three mon on the above guns:

[Bugyotsuji]

All good-looking guns of surprisingly similar style, as if a collector had been aiming for a certain specification.

 

Have you worked out the Mon yet?

[watsonmil]

Dear Barry,

All three guns are Kunitomo work. It would be of interest to have photographs of the signatures. I am rather surprised that you found three guns of virtually identical proportions and style together. Wonder what the story is behind that ! Thank you for the photographs.

... Ron Watson

[Viper6924]

Nice little collection of teppos. I agree that someone gone to some length to get hold of similar teppos. All three have dif woodgrains. Very intresting to see the signatures, if present. Perhaps the same group of gunsmiths have produced them.

The top teppo belongs to the Ito-clan. The bottom bottom to the Abe-clan. The middle one I would take a stab and place it with a sohei from a buddisttemple. I have never come across this mon before. I can be way wrong here, but what´s life without some gamble once in awhile :D

Piers; I will def take a moment and visit the EDO-corner.

 

Jan

[Lindus]

Possibly refers to a chapter in the Genji Monogatari?.

Roy

[k morita]

Regarding the middle teppo:

Is mei of middle teppo "Kunitomo Tobei Yoshimasa" ?

9th gen,Kunitomo Tobei Yoshimasa 国友藤兵衛能当

 

If so, his art-name(GO) was "Min-ryu or Nemuri-ryu".眠龍

The 2 characters of the inlaid work on the barrel says "Min-ryu/Nemuri-ryu" (a sleeping dragon)眠龍.

[Viper6924]

Intresting about the Kunitomo-mei, Morita-san. Never seen that style of teppo-mei before. I wonder if it´s also inscribed in the standard way under the stock?

 

Jan

[Bazza]

Morita san,

 

Thank you for that tasty tidbit about the middle gun mon and possible maker. I'm about to retire for the night and will endevour to dismantle the guns tomorrow and photograph the inside mei. Please bear with me as this may take a few days due to unexpected commitments (you wouldn't believe...).

 

Oyasumi nasai...

 

BaZZa.

[Justin Grant]

  Bugyotsuji said:

An interesting amount of information cut into this gun.

 

Makibari may not have a fixed English translation today, but although it includes the concept of rolled steel, I think here it is the idea of reinforcement through wrapping, binding, twisting, or coiling with thinly-rolled steel in multiple directions.

 

Niju-maki(bari). Double-bound (or wound) barrel, doubly spiral-twisted, double opposed helix binding, etc. (Double-coil reinforcement)

 

 

I love it when I learn a new word and days later see it in action, but this time, a bit different. I found this Tanegashima when browsing the Samurai Video thread for one of the suppliers of videos. He/She is selling this as a 17th century Settsu gun. What does Han Makibari mean? Half Rolled Steel?

[Bugyotsuji]

The English description is wrong there. It's not rifling.

 

One makibari is one complete diagonal winding around the full length of the barrel, Justin. (It was also called Kazura-bari at one time, or 'vine'-bound.)

 

Han makibari is only half, and I guess nothing to be proud of, unless it's an early gun when makibari had only just been invented and was in its infancy. It could mean that the lower end of the barrel including the chamber is bound to provide extra prevention against the gun blowing up. There is a possibility that it means Ichi-makibari (which I cannot recall ever seeing written), in other words half of Niju, but I will have to check on this.

 

It goes without saying that guns are safer from 二重　(double or two layer) Niju-makibari to So-makibari.

[Brian]

Justin,

Pan cover appears to be missing, and at $3K...doesn't seem to be a bargain imho.

 

Brian

[Justin Grant]

  Brian said:

Justin,

Pan cover appears to be missing, and at $3K...doesn't seem to be a bargain imho.

 

Brian

 

No bargin for sure... Just thought the timing of my Teppo lesson on here was good, learn a new word, and see it applied.

 

The reason I was at the site was for video's and they had the Tanegashima listed. I own one that needs work, don't need two that call for repairs!

 

Thanks.

[IanB]

All, By chance I was in work today and noted the following on a fellow curators desk. I was led to believe these items had passed through Herman Historica sale. The link connects to another forum:

http://forum.velizariy.kiev.ua/viewtopi ... 44&start=7

 

Now, these items are interesting on several counts. The gun with the Togugawa kamon is of the type that was produced in Indonesia and does not have a Japanese barrel as the caption suggests. How it made its way to Japan is a mystery but it could have been brought by the Dutch or it may have been a gift to the Shogun from the King of Siam, the two having extensive correspondence with each other. I am a bit suspicious of the serpentine which looks too refined and a different colour brass. I suspect it has been added recently before it was put into the sale.

The second gun is very similar to one of the two early Goan guns in the Tokugawa Art Museum, Nagoya. The Nagoya gun having a Tokugawa kamon fixed to the pan cover. This gun is a bit odd. Why has there been no attempt to fit the lock into the stock? It is said to come from Vietnam like the third gun. That at least has the lock properly inlet into the stock.

Three interesting matchlocks that all derive from those produced in Goa, each with their individual national takes on the basic form.

Ian Bottomley

[Bugyotsuji]

Notice there is a previous page to those, Ian. I find all of them fascinating.

The Vietnam/Annan ones seem to be of rather poor quality.

 

I certainly wouldn't pay 3,000 (USD?) without a shot of the muzzle inside and out. (That first one's muzzle seems to have been cut out of the picture.) Apart from the decoration, very similar to Japanese matchlock design, as you say. The pan and lid strikingly so. The too-tight trigger guard and the slot for the trigger to pull back into are unusual for me.

[Viper6924]

Here´s a teppo that was up for an auction in Sweden a couple of years ago. I don´t know the correct english term for this kind of model. But the stock and firemechanism are different compared to older teppos. I would place it at 1800-1850:ish. About 107 cm and 15mm caliber. Kind of the next generation of teppo I guess. Personally I like the older mods.

 

Jan

[IanB]

Piers, These are indeed an interesting and rare collection of SE Asian guns. I wonder how accurate the origins claimed for these guns are.

 

Jan, That gun is a very late one made after the American's had introduced percussion cap ignition. Prior to this the Japanese were making 'pill-lock' guns that used small pellets of detonating compound. These latter must have been very difficult to use, the tiny pills being about 2mm diam, and explosive to boot.

Ian Bottomley

[Viper6924]

Thanks for the info, Ian.

Imagine You have the old foe closing in and You´re desperatly trying to handle a 2mm pellet of gunpowder from your pocket. Can´t be good for Your bloodpressure

 

 

Jan

[watsonmil]

Dear Jan,

To slightly correct Ian's description .. " That gun is a very late one made after the American's had introduced percussion cap ignition. " This gun was not MADE after the introduction of the percussion cap, ... rather it is a CONVERSION of an existing matchlock to the percussion system.

A few guns were made by the Japanese using the percussion system, ... but this example is not one of them.

... Ron Watson

[Viper6924]

Roger that, Ron! I wouldn´t mind owning one just to extend the collection. But the bloodpressure-part still stands for any poor soldier forced to use it

 

Jan

[IanB]

Ron, You are quite correct. I was sloppy in my wording. There is something odd happening to the breech area of the barrel on the opposite side to the lock. On the lock side the barrel seems to have been roughly filed down where it butts against the brass band. It also seems to have the same treatment on the back as well - one wonders why.

Ian Bottomley

[Bugyotsuji]

This looks like a good example of a percussion cap update to an older Ogino-Ryu matchlock. The lock looks completely replaced, and the breech end of the barrel looks as if it has had a wedge section ground away and a new nipple section inserted somehow.