Chôshû or Shoami school?

[Eric M]

Hello

I am a beginner in tsuba so I searched the web to find a similar type of waki tsuba.

I found Chôshû or Shoami tsubas which shared similarities whith this one so what do you think (and what makes you think it)?

thx

eric

[Henry Wilson]

If you translate the signature, you might find out more about the tsuba.

[Eric M]

I wish to be able to translate it !

for the right one I would try NORI XX JU

and the left one YOSHI XX

[Henry Wilson]

I think it might be this:

 

江府住

辰 壽

 

If you run an internet search, such a person seems to have existed.

[Akitombo]

Henry

Does that make it Bushu school then?

David

[Ludolf Richter]

The problem is that the Mei from your Tsuba is different from the ones of 江府住

辰 壽 (Haynes has listed him under Mitsutoshi).I have 8 辰 壽 Shoshinmei-pics in my database with clearly different Kanji.Especially the "toshi" here is strange!Gimei or an artist with a different Go (and not yet with 辰 壽) in the books!?Ludolf

[Henry Wilson]

David

 

This tsuba out of my area of collecting interest so I can not answer your question clearly. I did a quick search on the Net and the images I was getting for the mei would make me think Shoami but that is just a guess and more a thought rather than an answer.

 

Also the different mei I found were very different to the mei on the tsuba above, as Ludolf has pointed out. Again the gut talking I think the tsuba and mei above might have been done by a lesser known 江府の辰 壽 (how do we pronounce the kani???) and not a gimei.

 

Just some thoughts on this sultry May afternoon.

[Akitombo]

Henry

If I looked at that tsuba from a distance, I would say Choshu straight away

Glad you have nice weather at your end,if it ever stops raining in England, I'll be able to nip outside and finish building my ark :lol:

Regards

David

[Ludolf Richter]

Maybe you don't have a character dictionary:

江府住 辰 壽 Kofu ju Tatsutoshi (Kofu = Edo)

Tatsutoshi is seen as the founder of the florishing Ito-school of Edo with many students.I agree that the Mei is too crude to be Gimei so it is probably the work of an hitherto unknown student (one of his many students).I could only find 3 students:his son Tatsunao,Tokitoshi and Namitoshi.I don't understand,why Haynes has indexed him with his rare Go Mitsutoshi (H 05505) instead of the most used Go Tatsutoshi.Ludolf

PS.I have seen some similar Tsuba from Nagato/Choshu but I don't know who first used that type of Tsuba,those guys from Hagi or from Edo (or?).

[docliss]

Eric’s tsuba is signed TOFU (NO)JU TATSUTOSHI, using the 14–stroke kanji for ‘toshi’. It is strange that Haynes, in his Index … only lists one artist using this name, H.05505.0, and this using the 7–stroke kanji.

 

The Baur Catalogue includes two tsuba by Eric’s artist, D 255 and 256. Each is signed Tofu (no)ju Tatsutoshi, using the 14-stroke kanji, although the mei, illustrated as #530, on p.438, is unlike that of Eric’s in several respects.

 

Robinson describes this artist as ‘early 19th century. Personal name Ido Chūshichi. Worked in Yedo, where he was a pupil of the Akao', and lists him with other Akao artists.

 

John L.

[Henry Wilson]

Can anyone comment if the tsuba in question is Choshu or Shoami (or neither)? I did some reading on Choshu last night and looked at some pictures of signed pieces. From what I gather Eric's tsuba is not detailed enough for Choshu and Shoami would better a good call.

[docliss]

Neither ... what's wrong with the Akao attribution? John L.

[Henry Wilson]

Hi John

what's wrong with the Akao attribution?

It appears to me you have pulled this out of book by a man named Robinson. What book are you you refering to? Also, is there anything about the tsuba itself that makes you think it is Akao?

 

I know next to nothing about the Akao (and Choshu as well) and would benefit from learning about key points that are characteristic of them.

[docliss]

Dear Henry

 

‘AKAO. This school was founded by Akao Yoshitsugu, who was born at Fukui in the province of Echizen about 1700; he was a samurai in the service of the Matsudaira family. His son, Yoshitsugu II, moved his headquarters from Echizen to Yedo, but a branch of the school continued to operate at Fukui. The latter produced pierced and modelled designs influenced by the Chōshū (Kawaji) and Kinai masters. Those of the Yedo branch, on the other hand, pursued a development of the Akasaka style, in which positive silhouettes of natural or artificial objects are reduced to forms so conventionalised as sometimes to defy identification.’

 

Robinson, BW. The Baur Collection Geneva, Lausanne, 1980, p.48.

 

With very few exceptions, it is very difficult to attribute C19 work, by reason of its characteristics, to a specific school due to the intermingling of styles and influences that occurred during this period.

 

As to the characteristics of the Bushū and Chōshū schools, you have a lot of reading to do!

 

Kind regards, John L.

[Henry Wilson]

Thanks John for the reply.

 

Can I ask what C19 work is?

[Thierry BERNARD]

century 19

[Henry Wilson]

Of course! Thanks Thierry.

[docliss]

Sorry - 19th century. John L.

 

Edited, sorry my reply is repetitive.

[Eric M]

thx a lot for your help