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Help with Tsuba please!

hxv

By hxv
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hxv Mentor

hxv

Posted
Posted

Hi everyone,

 

I don't know very much about tsuba and would appreciate any info you can give me on this tsuba. I can make out the name to be Masanori (probably). The year is much more difficult for me. I can only make out Jin (may be) X X Ju X X.

 

Thank you,

Hoanh

 

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Dr Fox Mentor

Dr Fox

Posted
Posted

The illustration of a riflescope recticle design, also has me puzzled, as an answer to a tsuba question. This has got to be worth watching, for its explanation alone

:dunno:

ROKUJURO Grand Master

ROKUJURO

Posted
Posted

I will give it a try although I know that our native speakers here might laugh about GAIJIN pondering over so simple riddles!

 

The name of the maker may be MASATSUNE, and the 'date' could just be ...made by 70 year old YUKI........(perhaps familiy name?).

 

Besides all this: a very nice TSUBA!

hxv Mentor

hxv

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Hi Christian,

 

I'll get on it and buy the "Haynes Index." In the mean time, will you please expand on your comment? I'm at a loss and am anxious to hear your expanded explanation.

 

Regards,

Hoanh

hxv Mentor

hxv

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Hi Jean,

 

Thank you very much for the info. It is a nice tsuba. But again, I don't know much about tsuba anyhow. I'm a beginner.

 

Regards,

Hoanh

hxv Mentor

hxv

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Dear Christian,

 

Thank you for pointing me in the right direction. I'll order the book right away.

 

Regards,

Hoanh

hxv Mentor

hxv

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Hi Christian,

 

I emailed Grey Doffin to ask for his help to locate in copy in the US. If we cannot locate it here in the US, I'll order from overseas. Once again, thank you for pointing me in the right direction.

 

Regards,

Hoanh

Toryu2020 Grand Master

Toryu2020

Posted
Posted

How about

Masatsune

Gyonen nanajukyu-sai

 

正恒 行年 七十九歳

 

Masatsune aged 79 years (made this)

 

No idea how to translate Christians' though...

hxv Mentor

hxv

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Hi Thomas,

 

Thank you for the translation. I guess without Haynes' Index in hand until I can locate a copy, I will have to Google up "Masatsune tsuba" to see what comes up. Anymore info you can dig up would be greatly appreciated.

 

Regards,

Hoanh

hxv Mentor

hxv

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Thank you Curran. I Googled Masatsune and the one that matches the profile was one of the influential heads of the Ishiguro school and produced lots of work at late age. I believe he died in the early 1800s. It resonates with the mei on my tsuba that says he was 79 when he made the tsuba, and the tsuba does look like it belongs in the late 1700s or early 1800s. Input anyone?

 

Regards,

Hoanh

docliss Experienced

docliss

Posted
Posted

Dear Hoanh

 

I agree with Curran that your tsuba, which I like very much indeed, is late Bushū/Chōshū work and that H 04737.0 and/or H 04740. 0 are possible contenders. But the former artist died in 1717 – much too early for your tsuba – and the latter, working circa 1800, may also be a bit early Many of the artists of this group and period comprised several generations using the same name, and Curran’s ‘son of’ either of these artist(s) is a likely provenance.

 

I am copying into this message the info from Haynes’ Index regarding these artists (sadly, it would not ‘cut and paste’ from the CD!).

 

 

MASATSUNE F: Ito

H 04737.0 N: Jin’emon, Jinsaburo

W: Edo

D: died 1717 at age 81

NTS: listed in the Sōken Kishō, 1781, vol. 3,

p. 26. Said to be the son of Masanaga

H 04238.0, or H 04247.0. The two

Masanaga and this Masatsune seem to be mixed

together. In addition it is said that there was a

second generation Masatsunune who died in

1775. Said to have been a retainer of the

Bakufu and made fittings for the Shogunal court.

 

MASATSUNE

H 04740.0` W: Bushūjū and Chōshū jū

D: ca 1800

NTS: this artist worked bnth at Edo and in

Nagato Province. Some say he is also the Itō

school artist of this name, H 04737.0. None of

this is proved, and as in so many of the Itō

school artists, there seem to be several

generations who used the same name during

the Edo period.

 

With kind regards, John L.

hxv Mentor

hxv

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Thank you John. All of this is very new and *VERY* helpful to me. I appreciate your help. I still cannot figure out how all this relates to Christian's comment at the beginning of this thread, though. If you have any thought regarding this matter, please let me know.

 

Regards,

Hoanh

docliss Experienced

docliss

Posted
Posted

Dear Hoanh, Christian is a very knowledgeable and frequent subscriber to this NMB, but a combination of his significant language problems, together with a tendency to lateral thinking, do occassionally leave all of us rather bemused. Welcome to the asylum. John L.

Brian

Brian

Posted
Posted
Dear Hoanh, Christian is a very knowledgeable and frequent subscriber to this NMB, but a combination of his significant language problems, together with a tendency to lateral thinking, do occassionally leave all of us rather bemused. Welcome to the asylum. John L.

LOL! :lol:

Couldn't have said it better myself John. Asylum indeed! :D

"Lateral thinking".....also the perfect and succinct explanation.

 

Brian

hxv Mentor

hxv

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Thank you Laurent and Christian! (I will still order Hanyes' Index, though. I promise.). I feel like I just won the lottery. To repay your help, I will tell you how I came in possession of this tsuba. Some guy on Craiglist in San Diego was trying to sell this tsuba, a very nice fuchi (no kashira), and two and a half pairs (go figure) of *VERY* nice menuki for $2000. After three months, he went down to $1000, and another month, $600. I sent him an email and offered $300 and he accepted. I had to take a day from work and drove 160 miles round trip (I am in Orange County) to meet him an a gas station. He gave me the goods for inspection, I gave him the cash, and we parted ways. Just like in the movies ... :roll: I did ask him how he came across these items. His reply was that he attended an auction where people sell off storage-space stuff seized from non-paying patrons. He had no idea what they were but thought they were cool. When he wanted to sell them, he took them to a pawn shop for appraisal. That's how he came up with the original price of $2000. It sounds like a Peter Seller's comedy, but *ALL* of this did happen to me.

 

I'm happy the mystery has been revealed, too!

 

Again, thank you so much for your kindness, everyone!

 

Regards,

Hoanh

docliss Experienced

docliss

Posted
Posted

The National Museum of Scotland tsuba is, indeed, very similar to that of Hoanh but is not the same one, lacking as it does the sekigane present in the ryo-hitsu of Hoanh's. John L.

Curran Grand Master

Curran

Posted
Posted

Doctor John,

Thank you for typing that out and clarifying Bushu/Choshu.

As John pointed out, not the same one.

 

Hoanh,

Would love to see the menuki and the fuchi. The singles like that are often called "Orphans" and some of us even collect Orphans as an economic way to have examples from many schools.

 

 

Curran

hxv Mentor

hxv

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Hi Curran,

 

Here are the pictures of the fuchi and menuki. I would appreciate background info, comments, feedback, etc.

 

Regards,

Hoanh

 

 

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Curran Grand Master

Curran

Posted
Posted

Relatively sure the fuchi would get attributed to "Kyo-Kinko" (basically Kyoto style soft metal work)

 

Not sure about the menuki. Menuki are generally much harder to attribute.

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