Help with Tsuba please!

[hxv]

Hi everyone,

 

I don't know very much about tsuba and would appreciate any info you can give me on this tsuba. I can make out the name to be Masanori (probably). The year is much more difficult for me. I can only make out Jin (may be) X X Ju X X.

 

Thank you,

Hoanh

 

[christianmalterre]

Holy Grail!

is this an joke here???

 

 

Christian

[Thierry BERNARD]

  christianmalterre said:

Holy Grail!

is this an joke here???

 

 

Christian

 

 

????????

[Dr Fox]

The illustration of a riflescope recticle design, also has me puzzled, as an answer to a tsuba question. This has got to be worth watching, for its explanation alone

[christianmalterre]

Thierry,

you maybe should study the Haynes Index?

It´s certainly inside-NOT?

 

(hxv-in this case here-i do hardly recomment you so to buy you this mentioned literature-you will certainly not regret...)

Christian

[ROKUJURO]

I will give it a try although I know that our native speakers here might laugh about GAIJIN pondering over so simple riddles!

 

The name of the maker may be MASATSUNE, and the 'date' could just be ...made by 70 year old YUKI........(perhaps familiy name?).

 

Besides all this: a very nice TSUBA!

[hxv]

Hi Christian,

 

I'll get on it and buy the "Haynes Index." In the mean time, will you please expand on your comment? I'm at a loss and am anxious to hear your expanded explanation.

 

Regards,

Hoanh

[hxv]

Hi Jean,

 

Thank you very much for the info. It is a nice tsuba. But again, I don't know much about tsuba anyhow. I'm a beginner.

 

Regards,

Hoanh

[christianmalterre]

Hoanh,

 

you´ll find the answer here: http://www.nihonart.de/index_en.php

(just by the way-very kind and honest people)

Depending where you are situated-i equally do recomment Grey Doffin(DITTO to above mentined)

Do your´s homework...you´ll see-makes much more fun-and equally does "value" your´s interest.

Christian

[hxv]

Dear Christian,

 

Thank you for pointing me in the right direction. I'll order the book right away.

 

Regards,

Hoanh

[hxv]

Hi Christian,

 

I emailed Grey Doffin to ask for his help to locate in copy in the US. If we cannot locate it here in the US, I'll order from overseas. Once again, thank you for pointing me in the right direction.

 

Regards,

Hoanh

[Toryu2020]

How about

Masatsune

Gyonen nanajukyu-sai

 

正恒 行年 七十九歳

 

Masatsune aged 79 years (made this)

 

No idea how to translate Christians' though...

[hxv]

Hi Thomas,

 

Thank you for the translation. I guess without Haynes' Index in hand until I can locate a copy, I will have to Google up "Masatsune tsuba" to see what comes up. Anymore info you can dig up would be greatly appreciated.

 

Regards,

Hoanh

[Henry Wilson]

Is this not a CD version of the Haynes book in question?

 

http://www.nihonto.com/5.7.09.html

[Curran]

http://www.nihonto.com/5.7.09.html

 

Hoahn,

There were several artists from different schools that went by this name.

 

It is probably Haynes 04737.0

or his son.

Perhaps one of the members with it on CD can cut and paste it for you.

[hxv]

Thank you Curran. I Googled Masatsune and the one that matches the profile was one of the influential heads of the Ishiguro school and produced lots of work at late age. I believe he died in the early 1800s. It resonates with the mei on my tsuba that says he was 79 when he made the tsuba, and the tsuba does look like it belongs in the late 1700s or early 1800s. Input anyone?

 

Regards,

Hoanh

[docliss]

Dear Hoanh

 

I agree with Curran that your tsuba, which I like very much indeed, is late Bushū/Chōshū work and that H 04737.0 and/or H 04740. 0 are possible contenders. But the former artist died in 1717 – much too early for your tsuba – and the latter, working circa 1800, may also be a bit early Many of the artists of this group and period comprised several generations using the same name, and Curran’s ‘son of’ either of these artist(s) is a likely provenance.

 

I am copying into this message the info from Haynes’ Index regarding these artists (sadly, it would not ‘cut and paste’ from the CD!).

 

 

MASATSUNE F: Ito

H 04737.0 N: Jin’emon, Jinsaburo

W: Edo

D: died 1717 at age 81

NTS: listed in the Sōken Kishō, 1781, vol. 3,

p. 26. Said to be the son of Masanaga

H 04238.0, or H 04247.0. The two

Masanaga and this Masatsune seem to be mixed

together. In addition it is said that there was a

second generation Masatsunune who died in

1775. Said to have been a retainer of the

Bakufu and made fittings for the Shogunal court.

 

MASATSUNE

H 04740.0` W: Bushūjū and Chōshū jū

D: ca 1800

NTS: this artist worked bnth at Edo and in

Nagato Province. Some say he is also the Itō

school artist of this name, H 04737.0. None of

this is proved, and as in so many of the Itō

school artists, there seem to be several

generations who used the same name during

the Edo period.

 

With kind regards, John L.

[hxv]

Thank you John. All of this is very new and *VERY* helpful to me. I appreciate your help. I still cannot figure out how all this relates to Christian's comment at the beginning of this thread, though. If you have any thought regarding this matter, please let me know.

 

Regards,

Hoanh

[docliss]

Dear Hoanh, Christian is a very knowledgeable and frequent subscriber to this NMB, but a combination of his significant language problems, together with a tendency to lateral thinking, do occassionally leave all of us rather bemused. Welcome to the asylum. John L.

[Brian]

  docliss said:

Dear Hoanh, Christian is a very knowledgeable and frequent subscriber to this NMB, but a combination of his significant language problems, together with a tendency to lateral thinking, do occassionally leave all of us rather bemused. Welcome to the asylum. John L.

LOL! :lol:

Couldn't have said it better myself John. Asylum indeed! :D

"Lateral thinking".....also the perfect and succinct explanation.

 

Brian

[christianmalterre]

:D !

Thanks for the flowers!

(but be certain-i´ll not invite you for an )

Laugh!(It´s O.K.!)

Christian

[Laurent D]

it looks like this one (name, subject, design)

 

http://www.nms.ac.uk/collections/detail ... s=3&tot=92

 

Laurent D.

[christianmalterre]

Laurent

you exactly found the one i did had in mind yesterday!-LOL!

Great Job!

(now it´s up to the Kinko-Front...)

 

Thanks!(folks here)

 

Christian

[hxv]

Thank you Laurent and Christian! (I will still order Hanyes' Index, though. I promise.). I feel like I just won the lottery. To repay your help, I will tell you how I came in possession of this tsuba. Some guy on Craiglist in San Diego was trying to sell this tsuba, a very nice fuchi (no kashira), and two and a half pairs (go figure) of *VERY* nice menuki for $2000. After three months, he went down to $1000, and another month, $600. I sent him an email and offered $300 and he accepted. I had to take a day from work and drove 160 miles round trip (I am in Orange County) to meet him an a gas station. He gave me the goods for inspection, I gave him the cash, and we parted ways. Just like in the movies ... I did ask him how he came across these items. His reply was that he attended an auction where people sell off storage-space stuff seized from non-paying patrons. He had no idea what they were but thought they were cool. When he wanted to sell them, he took them to a pawn shop for appraisal. That's how he came up with the original price of $2000. It sounds like a Peter Seller's comedy, but *ALL* of this did happen to me.

 

I'm happy the mystery has been revealed, too!

 

Again, thank you so much for your kindness, everyone!

 

Regards,

Hoanh

[docliss]

The National Museum of Scotland tsuba is, indeed, very similar to that of Hoanh but is not the same one, lacking as it does the sekigane present in the ryo-hitsu of Hoanh's. John L.

[Curran]

Doctor John,

Thank you for typing that out and clarifying Bushu/Choshu.

As John pointed out, not the same one.

 

Hoanh,

Would love to see the menuki and the fuchi. The singles like that are often called "Orphans" and some of us even collect Orphans as an economic way to have examples from many schools.

 

 

Curran

[hxv]

Hi Curran,

 

Here are the pictures of the fuchi and menuki. I would appreciate background info, comments, feedback, etc.

 

Regards,

Hoanh

 

 

[Curran]

Relatively sure the fuchi would get attributed to "Kyo-Kinko" (basically Kyoto style soft metal work)

 

Not sure about the menuki. Menuki are generally much harder to attribute.