Translating

[Dr Fox]

The art of translating characters on the sword and fittings, I have believed to well above my ability. But now heres a thing! At various places in posts here, translation attempts are welcomed from novices, and even helped with corrections.

There are many instances, where a novice has been guided onto the true path, and this is fully illustrated. So I want to join the ranks of serious study in this aspect of collecting.

Mission statement made, how do I start? I have a MAC running Lion, and have all the time and patience in the world.

My main reason to request here is that board members, have been this route, so where better to get considered advice.

 

Thanks

Denis

 

PS (I was not sure exactly where to post this request.)

[Veli]

Hi Denis!

 

I think being able to translate mei is an important aspect of collecting Nihonto, and it can be surprisingly fun; a bit like solving crossword puzzles but much more fascinating and meaningful. I have tried to learn this skill for a couple of years, and although I have improved a lot (that's easy when starting from zero), I am still a beginner.

 

The tools I regularly use include:

Kanji table in Yumoto's book The Samurai Sword

JSSUS Nihonto Kanji pages (link on the top menu)

Nihontoclub swordsmith online database http://nihontoclub.com/view/smiths/meisearch

Hawley's Japanese Swordsmiths (annexed supplementary aids are useful!)

NMB and Google searches

Oshigata reference books for verification

Online Kanji dictionaries:

http://www.saiga-jp.com/kanji_dictionary.html

http://nihongo.j-talk.com/kanji/

 

I do not think there's any other way to learn to translate than doing translations. I personally thank all the more experienced NMB members for patience towards my own learning efforts!

 

So please just try it!

 

Veli

[Dr Fox]

Thanks a lot Veli

 

You have given me a start in the right direction, I will look at all the aspects of study you have mentioned, and as to the comment on fascination, I can identify with that.

Your response to my request is appreciated, and with the backup of other members, I intend to give this some serious time.

Regards

Denis.

[Jiro49]

Hello, here is another book with a great fold out page with kanji!

 

A Primer of Japanese Sword Blades, B. W. Robinson

 

Regards,

[Dr Fox]

Thanks Matt

 

Found this book in the US good price but don't ship to UK, no probe try another source.

Regards

Denis.

[Thierry BERNARD]

try tris book

[Dr Fox]

Hi Matt

I found and have bought the book in this country.

 

Hi Thierry

 

Thank you too for your input, on your advice I have sourced and bought your suggested book.

 

Regards both

 

Denis.

[Jussi Ekholm]

Well as a real novice in this area I agree it's great fun and the excitement of doing it is much bigger than crossword puzzles, well someone who favors crosswords might not agree with me on that.

 

And I use pretty much same methods as Veli described there, although I'm limited in oshigata references.

 

The method of doing translations for me is having 3-4 books on hand, maybe 2-3 tabs with kanji open, plus search tabs. Then it just takes time, and for a novice like me it really takes a long time. I still usually get only parts of translations correct, and it's really delightful when you happen to get most, or sometimes the whole mei correct.

 

One good trick I do sometimes is go on to some shops site, click few nakagos open on tabs quickly trying not to look descriptions of the item, do something else for a while, then start trying to translate them. The reason I open few at the time is that I can get stuck on some kanji, when I hit that point, I can do the other translation on the meanwhile, and then return for those that I couldn't get. Sometimes a break like this will help, sometimes it doesn't.

 

You may get lots of errors in the beginning, I know I do. Some kanji look very much alike for us novices. Sometimes I use another kanji I know fairly surely I've gotten correct in trying to solve the above or below one. However, there are times the translation I thought was incorrect is actually correct, and the one I thought to be correct is the incorrect one, so I ended up choosing the wrong one...

 

Good luck with translations mate!

[Dr Fox]

Thanks for your thoughts Jussi

 

My thinking is on the same lines as yours, I know this subject is not easy, and takes time and a million examples before it makes sense. I have the utmost respect, for those who have done their research, and can now obtain accurate results in such a casual manner.

All that being said, I would imagine, an immense sense of achievement, would be felt at the early stages of translation success, even if a little help is given.

And of course having examples of mei, in books and internet brings a host of study materiel into the home.

My first moves, are to gather in the recommended 'tools' suggested to me, and to move slowly from there.

 

Cheers

Denis.

[Shugyosha]

Hi Denis,

 

This might be a bit of a statement of the obvious and sorry if that is the case, but I have found that having a basic knowledge of how Kanji work i.e. stroke counts and radicals can make life a lot easier. I have found Let's Learn Kanji by Mitamura and Mitamura very useful for this. It also fits in with my plan to have a working knowledge of the language beyond sword terminology.

 

It can be a slightly less daunting task if you can find a way to break the elephant down into something more like bitesize chunks: most dated swords you will encounter will be shinto or later so this is a good place to start on dates and the Kanji do repeat themselves in a number of cases. Likewise with provinces, sort out the ones which occur most and least frequently and it just leaves all the rest... :D

 

Kind regards,

John J.

[Dr Fox]

Hi John J.

 

This might be a bit of a statement of the obvious and sorry if that is the case

 

No its not the case at all, in fact its just the kind of help I had requested and am getting. I see what you are saying and it was a worry that I had! 'Where do I begin?' Start at the back of a book, you knew who dunnit, but you don't know what they did!

Your reference to yet another book will be a great help, and I thank you for it. I found the following quote summed me up exactly.

 

Reading mei is like trying to read someone's sloppy handwriting written in a language that you don't understand .

I appreciate your time.

Cheers

Denis.