Dirty menuki

[blackwatercreekllc]

Sorry if this has been asked before - i looked around and did not see anything. I recently got a really bad tsuka on ebay and i believe it to be authentic - late edo probably. It was in really bad shape and i bought it specifically to take apart. I cleaned the surface filth off of the menuki using choji and cloth - they are pretty poor quality - cast brass from the looks of it with maybe a hint of carving work. So i have reached a dilemma. They are still so dirty that it is almost impossible to tell what they are. Do i clean further and remove patina or do i leave alone and have some nice antique yet unrecognizable fittings. Any feedback appreciated. I know alot about blade cleaning do/do not's but koshirae fittings not so much. Thanks.

[kusunokimasahige]

Please stop cleaning unless you actually know what you are doing.

 

Post some photos of the menuki on here and the board members might help you out with it,

 

Best wishes,

 

KM

[ROKUJURO]

This IS a dilemma.

 

In case you want to re-mount them you want them in good condition. If you clean them down to bright metal, you will not like them.

 

Maybe you will not get away without some loss of patina. How I would proceed with items of lesser value is this: I would try hot water with some mild soap which in most cases will not attack the patina. If this does not work sufficiently go ahead with the toothbrush of your wife - no abrasives at this point!

 

Chemical solvants will also not damage metallic surfaces, but I think it would be wise to find out first the nature of this dirt. Sometimes - in cases of faked age or quality of the item - they use glue to obscure the true nature.

 

If nothing helps you have to clean them with a toothpick-like instrument of wood, bone or horn, if necessary brush them with Colgate or similar. Then of course you have to repatinate them which is not too difficult in case they are made from brass.

 

All that said if the MENUKI are really cast copies, of course!

 

Good success!

[blackwatercreekllc]

Yeah, they are definitly cast. I am sure they are not shakudo. I will post pics when i get home tonight.

[blackwatercreekllc]

here is a pic of the menuki. This is just after a light cleaning. I was thinking of using a light vulpex solution. Looks to me like a laughing buddha with some angel things....

[Henry Wilson]

They seem to depict Hotei, his large sack and a group of excited children....

 

http://www.onmarkproductions.com/html/hotei.shtml

[Lindus]

I remember Ron Gregory cleaning menuki on Gunto with dilute amonia,never tried it myself but seemed to work well.

Roy

[drbvac]

I did note in an earlier post a mention of "colgate" and must remind all the toothpaste is very abrasive - recall the commercial where it took the paint off the car fender. It is great for a polish for jewellery but is probably as abrasive as something like jewellers rouge. Will clean lots of stuff but will take it down to base metal.

[sanjuro]

These are not and never were shakudo as you have worked out for yourself. They are cast shinchu (brass), and any patina they may have had is now long gone. Whats done is done however, further cleaning will not really hurt them any more than what cleaning has already been done. Any abrasive like toothpaste will just remove detail, so keep the cleaning down to solvent type liquids. With cast items there will always be a roughness in the low spots that looks dirty but isnt, due to the fact that it holds no level of polish.

Just be careful. :D

 

JMHO

[Guido]

These are not and never were shakudo as you have worked out for yourself. They are cast shinchu (brass), ...

Well, he already said in his first post

... - they are pretty poor quality - cast brass from the looks of it with maybe a hint of carving work.

In any case, considering the quality - or rather lack thereof - they don't warrant any "restoration".

 

And BTW:

[Jean]

David,

 

please comply with NMB rules as indicated by Guido, thanks in advance.

[blackwatercreekllc]

Signature updated thanks. Thanks for responses - the shiny is from camera flash not cleaning. So anyone use vulpex at all? It is quite good and safe. A very potent yet non acidic soap mainly for museum use. Never tried it on something like this though. But as was said earlier - quality is pretty poor. The tsuka I disassembled with them on it had patched together samegawa and the wood itself looked like it had been cut and extended. If I didn't know better I would have thought it was from china.

[blackwatercreekllc]

Henry - thanks on the hotei ref. I would not have picked up on that. I thought it odd that Buddha was rocking the bean bag chair.