samurai77 Posted April 3, 2012 Report Posted April 3, 2012 Can you tell me more about this one? I'm thinking about making an offer on it. From what I understand the tang has the date of 1867. There is no signature. Since the saya is made of carved ornate ivory which made me believe that this sword has little if any collector value. I didn't see any obvious graining. The curvature is such that it fits in a tusk. This is the first time looking at such an item. Is it still possible that this is forged? Or is what I'm assuming correct. Thank you for any advice.
Bugyotsuji Posted April 3, 2012 Report Posted April 3, 2012 What are you assuming? Hard to tell from what little information you provide. The date looks good.
Ken-Hawaii Posted April 3, 2012 Report Posted April 3, 2012 Please sign your name to your posts per Brian's rules. What are you trying to find out about this blade? With so little information & a photo that doesn't show much at all, there's not a lot we can help with. Try giving us a few shots including an overall image of the sword. Ken
samurai77 Posted April 3, 2012 Author Report Posted April 3, 2012 This is the only other picture I have as I don't own this blade. Are there any blades of collector value during this time period (1860s) that were made with the ivory scabbard? Is it true that the ivory art is usually more valuable than the blade? Based on these few pics, can you tell if the quality of this blade is better or worse than average for blades made for export? Are the inscriptions on the tang typical of blades made for export? Thank you. Brian
Ken-Hawaii Posted April 3, 2012 Report Posted April 3, 2012 Wow! I've heard of large sori (blade curvature), Brian, but I sure hope that photo was taken with a lens that distorted the view!! Ken
Brian Posted April 3, 2012 Report Posted April 3, 2012 Since you say the curvature is such that it fits into a tusk, I am led to believe the sori is as presented. Therefore this is likely a tourist type piece made to appeal to a Western market. I expect the quality will be lacking. Often the quality of the carving tells a lot. What looks lke good carving to many is actually crude and rough. Although sometimes a rare piece finds its way into the market with really good and detailed ivory carving, and a decent blade. Not the case here I expect, but await more info. Brian
Geraint Posted April 3, 2012 Report Posted April 3, 2012 Hi Brian. The comments you have so far are all correct but I wanted to explore the topic a little more. As you now know most of these pieces, sometimes called won-to I believe, are made for a late Meiji Western market and as such the blades are very often no lore than metal tsunagi, not swords at all. In other words the value was seen as being in the ivory carving. However as Brian points out rarely you do find blades of greater interest in such mounts. While I cannot be certain of the detail I have heard that one collector discovered a Tadastuna in such mounts. Don't get your hopes up! I attach some images of a couple of rather good quality tanto and one fabulous tachi as well as one other of a shinshinto daiso with very exaggerated sori, though perhaps not quite in the league of the one you illustrate. I also recall reading an article that pointed out that contemporary swordsmiths were quite capable of making a sword to fit a koshirae implying very real control of sori in the forging process. All this leads me to the following points: most nihonto collectors would regard this as an oddity, probably more of interest to collectors of Meiji art. Sometimes the unexpected occurs in this fascinating hobby and almost any rule you work by will sooner or later come unstuck. You suggested that the value way well be in the ivory carving and you are probably right. The ivry tachi in the image had quite a substantial estimate though I don't have a price realised. If you are a purist nihonto collector then you will probably pass on this one but f your interests are broader and the price seems right to you then you may well end up owning it, enjoying it for what it is but not concerned about the blade over much. At least this blade is streets ahead of most of the ones that you find in such mounts. All the best and if you do go for it enjoy.
Kai-Gunto Posted April 3, 2012 Report Posted April 3, 2012 http://www.thelanesarmoury.co.uk/viewph ... 994&phqu=5
Jean Posted April 3, 2012 Report Posted April 3, 2012 I lock it again unless other pictures of the topic sword
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