Tea pot

[peter]

Hello All,

i recently bought a Tsuba , just because i liked it and it was , to me, unusual. i wonder if some of the "Tsuba" guys could take a look and give their opinion good or bad on age and anything else about it would be appreciated ,the measurements are 78mm across, the Seppa-Dia is 30mm from top to bottom and 8mm from side to side in the centre, there is copper in it to reduce the Seppa-Dia.

Peter

[kusunokimasahige]

I must say I like it very much, though I could not enlighten you about school or age.

 

The teapot to me however has a distinct European 19th century look about it. My guess, and a real guess at that, would be that at some time the maker saw a European teapot and decided to make a tsuba with that theme.

 

Just some generic examples :

 

 

 

 

However, I could be off my marbles and just have written total nonsense.

 

KM

[peter]

Thank you Henk-Jan,

Christian kindly looked and said the same,

maybe in there is the date, as it is a 19th century pot, i wasnt sure if it was tea or sake'.

Peter

[John A Stuart]

Chicken before the egg. Teapots for the making of tea in the steeping method (infusion) became popular in Ming (1368-1644) China. From there it spread; eventually reaching Europe. The form shown here was also used for sake. See teapots made in Yixing, Ming Dynasty. John

[kusunokimasahige]

True, it is part of the chicken before egg discussion, however there are a lot of similarities with Victorian as well as earlier European teapots of course inspired by Chinese ones.

 

Yixing teapot:

 

 

 

KM

[peter]

Thanks you all for having a look and for the comments,

so this tsuba is an oddity , maybe a one off , maybe a tea or sake' pot and possible edo or earlier? such a confusing little piece of history :?

Peter

[christianmalterre]

LOL! :D

but an lovely one for shure!

wish i could have an cub of "it" one day in future...

Christian

[peter]

Anytime you are in this part of the world. .Christian.

Thanks for all your help on this one.

 

Peter

[Henry Wilson]

From one Belfast boy to another ........

 

The metal looks nice and the carving is well done in a maru bori style. I would say that the tusba is possibly from the Momoyama period as the teapot seems to have Chinese and western styles combined and this fusion is apparently a Momoyama fad. Compare it with this:

http://www.yamabushiantiques.com/TSUBA94.htm

 

The petals on the top and bottom of the teapot are probably lotus leaves. The blackness and luster of the metal makes me think Owari province too. Just some thoughts.

 

By the way, did you buy it in Belfast?

[Marius]

Henry,

 

I beg to differ... This tsuba depicts a utensil needed for infusing tea (most likely sencha). As the sencha ceremony was really introduced in the 18th century, I can hardly believe that this tsuba is earlier than that. The Yamabusiantiques.com tsuba that you refer to, is indeed Momoyama and depicts a glazed mizusashi, quite essential for chanoyu.

[Henry Wilson]

Hi Mariusz

 

Below is some evidence to support my claim that Peter's tsuba could be from Momoyama period. Actually, I might be incorrect by saying that the teapot is Chinese influenced.

 

These are photos of a screen painting from this book.

http://www.joanseeuw.com/blog/2010/6/2/ ... es-er.html

 

It is listed in the catalog as:

The Arrival of the Namban "Southern Barbarians"

pair of six fold screen

colours and ink on gilt paper

Momoyama - Edo period 17th century

Private collection

Important cultural property

 

They depict foreigners arriving with items from their native land and meeting Japanese.

 

 

Next is a tsuba, from "Tsuba no bi" listed as Ko Shoami, dated to Early Edo. The commentary says it is influenced by Portuguese taste from the Momoyama period.

 

What such a shaped teapot was used for is another matter, but I feel confident assuming that such things have been in Japan since the end of the 1500s.

[kusunokimasahige]

Completely agree with Henry. The teapot looks distinctly European, whatever influence from China it might have.

It was important enough for the artist who painted the scrolls to include.

 

KM

[John A Stuart]

Notice the pertinent dates in this article.

A History of Teapots

The Spread of Tea and Teapots to the West

Long before tea reached Western Europe, it had spread from China to Japan, and South through Asia. Formosa was known for its Oolong ("Black Dragon") teas, and in Japan Green Tea reigned. The hill tribes of Burma and Siam had begun pickling tea by bruising and steaming the leaves before stuffing them into bamboo stalks or pits -- later the extract would be drunk, and the leaves chewed. The humid climates of Sumatra and Java made them ideal locations for growing tea.

 

In 1610, Dutch trading companies purchased tea in Japan, and in the 1620s began importing tea from Sumatra and Java into Holland, sending small amounts to Britain and France. Tisanes, herbal infusions used as health remedies, had been popular in Europe for centuries. Tea infusions were used medicinally in Holland when the drink first arrived. In mid-17th century England, the drink was scorned by the Puritans and so labelled medicinal by traders to promote its trade and consumption. The leaves were highly valued, precious cargo that had travelled far from exoticised lands. Europeans called the new drink "cha" after the Cantonese name "ch'a," and today the word "chai" is used by English speakers to identify spicy teas of Indian origin. The Amoy (SE China) term "tay" was adopted in Britain in the late 17th C., which led to our current usage of "tea."

 

Teapots arrived in Europe with shipments of tea. At first, their role was undermined by the magnitude of monetary investments in the tea itself -- ships docking at English ports in the early 1660s carried teapots stored underneath the heavy crates of tea, serving as a defense against the elements and spoilage. Within a decade, in 1669, the East India Tea Company was formed and went on to monopolize the tea trade until 1833, when tea production began in India. The company was one of the major importers of YiXing teapots, along with Portuguese shippers who named the pottery buccaro (boccaro) ware after examples of red earthenware they had seen in Central and South America. Today the term buccaro refers generally to any unglazed pottery. The shapes and delicate make of these early 17th century Chinese pieces, based on Asian classicism and naturalism movements, influenced the first European versions of teapots.

 

Coffee had been introduced in Europe in 1582, and hot chocolate was also a new libation made popular by the Iberians. Europeans who did not yet have teapots specifically designed as such probably used the same silver or ceramic ewer or pot for making and serving all three of these new-found treats. A tall, silver ewer held by the Victoria and Albert Museum in London is the earliest known silver tea vessel; it is inscribed "1670 -- tea-Pott." The earliest example of a ceramic European teapot was made between 1670 and 1680 by Arij de Milde in the Dutch town of Delft. His design was based upon YiXing pots, remained small in size to serve one or two cups, retained the short spout and loop handle, and was made of a red earthenware, termed "redd porcelain."

 

 

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[kusunokimasahige]

True, but the distinction here probably is teapots made of silver in a certain style.

 

The metal teapot depicted is highly likely a silverware one. These were not widely used in Japan, therefore a novelty.

 

Though inspired by the Yixing pots which were made of earthenware, and compared to the typical Japanese shapes it can only be concluded that this served as an inspiration for several Tsubako during the Momoyama period.

 

Show me a Japanese teapot of before the Momoyama period, made in silver or iron, or even bronze if those ever existed in this similar and very specific shape and I will stand corrected.

 

This does leave the question if these tsuba were made of nanban tetsu unanswered of course.

 

KM

[John A Stuart]

I don't see this tsuba as possibly being Momoyama if it is a European pot.

 

The earliest silver chocolate pots (chocolatiere) were made by French silversmiths in the late 17th century. [from; Chocalate: History, Culture and Heritage, by Louis E. Gravetti and Howard-Yana Shapiro]

 

http://www.coffee-beans-arabica.com/inf ... arts_5.htm

 

For the coffee pot, earliest dated silver pot. 1681

 

Object Type

The coffe pot was one of a series of new vessels developeded by European silversmiths for the imported drinks of tea, coffee and chocolate. A tapered cylindrical form of pot was originally used for both coffee and chocolate, but the earliest known silver teapot, dated to 1670, is also of this shape (museum no. M.399-1921). By the 18th century the spout was often placed at right angles to the handle on coffee and chocolate pots.

 

Historical Associations

The engraving on the coffee pot reveals that this was a gift to the East India Company. Founded in 1600, the English East India Company was incorporated by royal charter to develop trade with India and East Asia. The Museum's silver teapot of the same form was also presented to the East India Company, in 1670.

[Henry Wilson]

I don't see this tsuba as possibly being Momoyama if it is a European pot.

 

If it is a tsuba, how can it be a pot? Is this turning into a p#ssing contest????

[kusunokimasahige]

John, as of 1633 only the VOC was allowed trade with Japan.

 

The East India Company factories were closed by 1623.

 

http://www.voc-kenniscentrum.nl/gewest-Japan.html

 

http://www.ampltd.co.uk/collections_az/ ... ption.aspx

 

The story of the British East India Company therefore is not of much relevance for this tsuba discussion

 

Found what seems to be a Japanese silver tea/wine pot :

 

Age I dont know.

 

Sorry for the following funny translation but I used an online version to translate Dutch to English using babylon :

 

Teapots

 

By the trade of the VOC (Dutch East India Company) Holland was the first country that was introduced to tea. In 1610 the first cargo of tea in Holland and came to 1638 against imports was regularly so that tea was generally available. Tea leaves were very expensive and therefore only accessible for the top tier of the population. For the drink needed a new shape pot developed. The design of the teapot was also influenced by her descent. A few decades later for coffee and chocolate pots were also developed. Of all three drinks we thought in the beginning that they would have medicinal properties. So wrote the book Professor Tulp in 1652, he ziektens herein all Anatomical medicae which according to him would be remedied by drinking tea. Because of this and because the drinks were expensive, they were in the beginning is not so popular. Tea was mainly seen as a ladies drink.

 

The first tea pots that were used in Holland consisted of Chinese stoneware copies. The v.o.c. except the tea also Chinese and Japanese tea pots and tea cups included. In those countries where men drank tea existed for thousands of years no silver teapots. This seems to be the first Dutch silver copy which was made in Amsterdam in 1693, more on a modern coffeepot. In addition, this pot was probably used for all three drinks. One waitress should not drink more than one at once. Tea was first designed a separate pot donated. Especially in the Netherlands and England, one drank tea for taste. In these countries is therefore the final form of the silver teapot developed.

 

The preparation of tea happened in the beginning on the way the travellers had learned it myself in China and Japan. The tea leaves were done in a cup and poured hot water over it was there. However, we went about putting on tea in the teapot. They also prepare in two steps Later went tea. We put strong tea in a small tea pot called (Silver) also known as trekpot, and filled this in the Cup with hot water. The water sat in a hot water boiler or chafing Porte and was held by a which was also under the often in silver run. Porte A variant of the urnvormige is the kraantjeskan, also called the Porte tea called vase.

 

Because the taste of the brewed tea in a silver teapot was less well than those brewed tea in a porcelain or porcelain teapot parqueted teapots were more popular after 1750.

Tea Canisters

 

Besides the teapot made the silversmith still other objects that were used in the preparation of tea, such as the caddy. Sometimes one can find two buses in a lockable wooden box tea. Sat In each bus, for example, than any other tea Bohea and green tea. Later tea buses have a lock. The key was hung on the Keyring of the head of household who bought the tea also. Just as the teapot itself were many buses also of porcelain tea, whether or not with a silver lid.

Coffee Pots

 

European travellers had in the 16th century in the Middle East know and drink coffee. Coffee was the second exotic new drink that became naturalised in Holland. From 1650 began the regular import of the coffee beans through Venice from the Middle East to get inside. In 1711 the first load from Java reached Holland.

 

Unlike coffee, tea, was donated in drinking in the beginning only the premises which were frequented by people of little social respect. Later these were coffee houses a venue for gentlemen where one coffee drank and talked about politics. Also in the Hague had one such coffee houses from 1670. Only after coffee had come from the atmosphere of the coffee houses and also a beautiful coffee pot was drunk at home, did develop. In the 18th century created a new type of coffee pot that was used primarily in the Netherlands, kraantjeskan urnvormige. He was especially created in Amsterdam, Leeuwarden and Den Haag. A kraantjeskan for hot water faucet, a can of coffee has one three taps. The coffee with milk and sometimes mixed with cinnamon is already in the pot. The oldest known specimen is a Leeuwardse from 1700. There is also a different kind of coffee can in Netherlands. The shape of these coffee pot is probably derived from the milk ducts. The spout is open and close the lid only the aperture from the body but not of the spout. Some examples of this have a silver handle. This suggests that the jugs of origin should have had another function.

Chocolate Pots

 

Chocolate in Holland from Spain via Mexico and France was in the beginning of the 17th century introduced. Chocolate was more popular than tea and coffee in the beginning because it was a lot cheaper. The chocolate was long drunk from a pot that had the same form as the coffeepot. The chocolate mixture consisted of pure chocolate pasta with milk or water.

 

( http://www.geocities.ws/jptsmit/H4.html#_Toc10204820 )

 

Here are some of the older shapes of Dutch silver teapots :

 

http://www.betteridge.com/betteridge-co ... rn/p/3107/

 

They might be of the 1700's but I dont have my stamp yearbook at hand now.

 

An interesting discussion nonetheless John !

 

It is sometimes difficult to have style characteristics decide on the provenance of art objects/artifacts, but I stand, for now, by my idea that the style of the teapots on these tsuba is distinctly European.

 

Momoyama as well as Edo period for these tsuba could be possible, though the chance of them being Edo is slightly bigger.

 

KM

[John A Stuart]

I shall add the given. I don't see this tsuba as possibly being Momoyama [period] if it is a [depiction of a] European [tea]pot.

The reference to the East India Co. was not the point. It is that coffee, chocolate and tea pots did not have this shape in that period to be European. It must be an Indian or Chinese pot brought as a trade good perhaps from Goa shown in the scroll. If it really matters, the logical conclusion, that is. No, Henry, not a pissing contest, but, being sure of the likeliest theory. John

[Marius]

Hi Mariusz

 

Below is some evidence to support my claim that Peter's tsuba could be from Momoyama period.

Next is a tsuba, from "Tsuba no bi" listed as Ko Shoami, dated to Early Edo. The commentary says it is influenced by Portuguese taste from the Momoyama period.

What such a shaped teapot was used for is another matter, but I feel confident assuming that such things have been in Japan since the end of the 1500s.

 

Henry,

 

excellent examples, thank you :-) I rest my case. It could be well Momoyama/early Edo.

[peter]

Thank you all Gents for your comments and time taken to put all the excellent articles, references and pictures up to aid my quest for information on the Tsuba,

Many thanks,

Peter