Kai-Gunto Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 Hello Just got this wonderful sword in near mint condition. Muge Hachimam ju nin Kanekuni saku kore. Showa 5 10 6 nen 7 gatsu kichi jitsu.(A lucky day in July of the 56 th year of Showa (1981) The koshirae is Higo style ,with iron f/k set with sakura in gold.Also matching kojiri. The funny thing is that my interest for Japan started in 1981 when I saw the tv-series SHOGUN as a 11 years old boy. Made the same year and the most wonderful thing is I only gave 89 USD for it. Heres the katana BR Thomas Quote
Kai-Gunto Posted March 7, 2012 Author Report Posted March 7, 2012 heres the nakago. Ogawa Kanekuni is rated Mukansa. Quote
John A Stuart Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 $89 US???!!! Wow!! Certainly a stroke of fortune. You can't even buy fakes for that price. How did this come about? John Quote
Kai-Gunto Posted March 7, 2012 Author Report Posted March 7, 2012 Hold tight.........I bought it on ebay in a normal auction. Quote
kusunokimasahige Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 Let me congratulate you on two things... The fact you became interested in the Japanese culture and history in the same year as I did at the same age and for the same reason, "shogun" (out on a dvd box set these days) , And secondly on your sword.... for that price... on ebay !! OMG !! I must have been asleep. Its a lovely piece and looking fabulous ! YOROSHII ! KM Quote
Brian Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 Was wondering when you would make it here, to make me jealous If I was a bad person, I would hate you for being so darn lucky Yeah...this sword was listed with almost no pics on eBay, and listed clearly as a "repro Japanese sword" The seller had no clue at all...not even a small one. Everything in the description screamed a common aluminium shinken. No nakago pics if I remember? It went for $89. Of course, it ended up being something a little more. Damn...I think you used up the whole Nihonto world's luck in one go. Brian Quote
Kai-Gunto Posted March 7, 2012 Author Report Posted March 7, 2012 I never read the seller description first ,I look pictures first and makes my own opinion. Yes , there where no pictures of the nakago in the auction.there was a silk brocade sword bag and a sword kake in the auction. This is so far my best deal and most value sword. I hope I havnt used all the lucky , need more swords Mukansa Ogawa Kanekuni is 86 years old now and makes only one sword a year. Quote
watsonmil Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 Dear Thomas, I have had my share of good fortune ( luck ) in the collecting of Swords and other Samurai accruements, .... but a Katana of that quality for $ 89.00 is unbelievable. Congratulations are in order from not only me but from every single NMB Member. You are most fortunate indeed. I am very happy for you ! ... Ron Watson Quote
runagmc Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 Here's my range of emotions on this post :? :x :D Quote
Soten_Fan Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 I think I need to set up an ebay account.. But unfortunately such a bargain won't probably turn up for another 10 years (if ever..) This is amazing.. Where was the seller based? I wonder how this blade ever left Japan Quote
Kai-Gunto Posted March 7, 2012 Author Report Posted March 7, 2012 :D seller was in San Diego, US. They also sold a Japanese replica daisho set with the sword cleaning set witch schould have been with my sword I will in the near future take some photos in my friends photostudio. The photos here in the thread are from Ipad. Quote
GARY WORTHAM Posted March 9, 2012 Report Posted March 9, 2012 Well, I don't see a name for " gunto ", so hears my comments to whom it may concern; What a great find !! I, myself, have a katana by Seki Zenjo [ Yoshisada ] Ogawa Kanekuni, that I find most pleasing to have in my collection. I'm sure it must be from the same smith, as mine is all but confirmed by the signature. It must be staggering, to find and secure such a wonderful blade, by such a great and well recognized smith. Almost can't stand the envy. It boggles my mind, as to the historical transaction, as to how this blade, made it from Japan, from such a smith. Surely, the original owner knew its source and value. And anyone there after, as a new owner, would continue the knowledge and value. I ponder as to how this sword fell from grace, to become so obscure, as to mistaken as a reproduction sword. This is a story I'm sure all would love to know. Please fill in the blanks of the history and story !!! Gary Wortham Quote
cabowen Posted March 9, 2012 Report Posted March 9, 2012 A nice score indeed! I have met Ogawa Kanekuni on several occasions and found him to be a warm and congenial man. I had always meant to stop in and see his forge when I was in Gifu but it just never worked out.... He made his mark by reviving the o-doran-ba of Sukehiro; both he and his son made many skillful copies and won many top awards at the yearly contest. You might say he rode that wave to mukansa status.... His son carries on this tradition today. He also signs Kanekuni but with a different variation of kuni.... Congratulations! Quote
eternal_newbie Posted March 10, 2012 Report Posted March 10, 2012 GARY WORTHAM said: It must be staggering, to find and secure such a wonderful blade, by such a great and well recognized smith. Almost can't stand the envy. Rather than envy, let us be relieved that this sword didn't find its way to the hands of someone just looking for a Japanese-style cutter to swing around for fun or hang on their wall, which is clearly what it was being marketed as at that price *shudder* Interestingly, as Chris pointed out, this Ogawa Kanekuni made his mark with a Sukehiro-stye toran-ba - which entailed a clean break from the Mino tradition that he had previously been working in. I imagine this would have been mildly scandalous in the rigid traditionalism of the swordmaking profession. According to "The New Generation of Japanese Swordsmiths" upon presenting his first toran-ba sword for competition, he was even accused of having bought the sword from another smith and signing his own name on it! Quote
Kai-Gunto Posted March 10, 2012 Author Report Posted March 10, 2012 Hello mates. Thanks for all the kind words Im so happy I saved it from abuse ,it could have ended chopping wood:( the last idiot has not been born yet. Its not a sword im gonna keep ,I collect Japanese navy weapons. Any opinions on the value? Prox. Thanks in regards. Thomas Quote
cabowen Posted March 10, 2012 Report Posted March 10, 2012 gunto said: Any opinions on the value? Prox. Thanks in regards. Thomas Three things that will have a major impact on the value vis-a-vis his trademark o-doran work: 1. It is most likely an iai-to, not art sword. 2. It was made before he became a mukansa I believe. 3. It is not done in o-doran, but in choji. Despite the above, I am pretty sure you will get more than the $89 you paid Quote
kusunokimasahige Posted March 10, 2012 Report Posted March 10, 2012 Chris, a question... There are Japanese sellers who sell Nihonto as "for Iai" , for instance this one for sale by Aoi-Art : http://www.aoi-art.com/iai/11496.html Why are some swords even though they were made in the pre-Meiji era regarded as Iai-to and some classified as good for tameshi-giri ? Arent they also NihonTo ? KM Quote
cabowen Posted March 10, 2012 Report Posted March 10, 2012 Older swords that are marketed as "iai-to" are usually flawed in some non-fatal way, or are not of collector quality for some reason. Most sane people will not use a valuable old sword for martial arts.... Quote
Jean Posted March 10, 2012 Report Posted March 10, 2012 Quote 2. It was made before he became a mukansa I believe Chris, IMO, it should not influence too much the price, depending when it was forged, because if he became Mukansa, it is because of the works he made before. Furthermore I have noticed that except for some mukansa, generally they are not young when nominated. So, would their late works compare to the ones made before he became mukansa? These are questions as I have not the answers Quote
eternal_newbie Posted March 10, 2012 Report Posted March 10, 2012 My understanding is that swords considered suitable for iai tend to be lighter and longer, and thus more prone to breaking or bending, than those considered for batto-do/tameshigiri. Also, iai-to need a reasonable amount of curvature to facilitate the swift draw from the saya, whereas an almost-straight sword - in the style of Kanbun shinto, for example - can still suffice for tameshigiri. As Chris has noted, it goes without saying that any sword offered for iai or tameshigiri would also need to be of low enough aesthetic and historical significance to be worth the risk of destruction - even the most well trained martial arts practitioner can make a blade-ruining mistake under the right (or rather, wrong) circumstances. Outside of Japan, however, there's not much excuse to risk any historical weapon for iai or tameshigiri - if you can't afford a shinsakuto, there are numerous factory-made swords for martial arts practitioners as well as a number of Western bladesmiths whose works are as well-balanced and durable as any Nihonto (in some cases, more so). Quote
cabowen Posted March 10, 2012 Report Posted March 10, 2012 Generally, the works made while holding the mukansa or Ningen-Kokuho titles are priced at a premium to works made before the receipt of the title. I have seen this in Japan and have heard it from dealers and collectors on many occasions. Personally, it makes little sense to me, but then, that is par for the course. Quote
Brian Posted March 10, 2012 Report Posted March 10, 2012 The early work by a Mukansa smith wouldn't fetch the price of one made after his designation. This would be like saying that the work done by an artist while he is still experimenting and learning, commands the same price as those done after he has perfected his art. More people visit a 3 Michellin star restaurant after its grading than before..even though the food might be just as good. With recognition comes public interest and therefore increased desirability and price. Just my opinion. Brian Quote
eternal_newbie Posted March 10, 2012 Report Posted March 10, 2012 In Ogawa Kanekuni's case, his Sukehiro-style swords were the ones that "put him on the map" and earned him the Mukansa title. It stands to reason that his older works not in this style would be considered of lower value, as they weren't sufficient for him to gain recognition. That said, if an artist becomes famous enough, even the early works acquire a certain level of historical cachet as an example of the artist's evolution, especially by collectors of that particular artist; I doubt an early work of Masamune or Go Yoshihiro would be frowned upon in this day and age Not that I expect Ogawa Kanekuni (or any modern-day smith) to be anywhere near as highly regarded or historically significant as those two, of course... Quote
Jean Posted March 10, 2012 Report Posted March 10, 2012 I am going to tell you what I think, it is the same thing as with certificates. A hozon certificate does not mean that the sword is not up to Juyo level, same for swords done before and after Mukansa granted title. It means that the value of the blade is based on a title and not on the quality .... I love the comparison with 3 star Michelin restaurant, I have been in quite a lot and in some which were 2 stars before passing 3 stars. No difference at all in the cooking, but in the bill .... Quote
cabowen Posted March 10, 2012 Report Posted March 10, 2012 I think there is truth in both Brian and Jean's viewpoints....I think in reality, a blade made a year or two before making mukansa is not going to be much different than that made afterwards. I have seen Kunikane's entries every year over a period of 14 years. I think the first few years were before he made mukansa. They looked like the same blade year in and year out once he started making the Sukehiro copies. He found a groove and stayed in it. On the other hand, there is no doubt that most smiths mature and improve, making changes here and there as they try to find their "voice". Some improve more than others. Some were extremely good from a very early age.... Some smiths dabble in different styles, making Bizen choji, Hosho masame, etc. Naturally, they are better at some things than at others. Many factors come into play when pricing a smith's work. Of course, we try to generalize and assume all other factors are equal when we make statements like "work made after mukansa is valued higher than work made previously". No doubt there are swords made prior to becoming mukansa that might be valued higher than one made afterwards if it is something spectacular in comparison to a cookie cutter blade made late in life. One shouldn't look at these generalizations as written in stone, they are just guidelines. Every blade needs to be looked at individually and in the context of the smith's greater body of work. Quote
Kai-Gunto Posted March 19, 2012 Author Report Posted March 19, 2012 Thanks for all your replys and opinions. Arigato gozaimsau. Br Thomas N. Quote
Jorgensen Posted April 2, 2012 Report Posted April 2, 2012 Regarding to lot of talking about two and three star michelin restaurants and comparison with swords, I just have this funny way to think... If a cake from this restaurant is being sold for 10 usd before (in the two star restaurant) and then, when the restaurant is rewarded three stars, the cake price increases to 15 usd, because of getting more famous, get more public aso... -it sounds not tasty, but will an old cake (yes - I pretend I bought a cake when restaurant was two star and saved it) then be worth more and increase value to 15 usd if I put it for sale? Said in other words, then this smith previous works, from before he got mukansa - would increase in value, as he gets more famous and recognized?? (swords he made during the war not included). And when the smith dies, the swords probably will increase even more in value? Anyone agrees or disagrees with this? (nb -the cake example was just for fun!) Quote
edzo Posted April 7, 2012 Report Posted April 7, 2012 Congrats! Great looking blade. To the other members here, remember, There is always another lucky deal out there, just got to find it. Ed F Quote
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