Fittings help info and opinion

[edzo]

Dear Members,

Hi all, I have questions concerning a smith, fitting theme, and if there is a name for a specific type of menuki on an aikuchi mounted tanto. On the kazuka, there are two figures, one playing a flute wearing a straw hat and another dancing figure wearing what looks like a shishi mask. Is this a meaningful theme? Or what would it (theme), be called? The sig and Kao are of Masayasu, short of one reference Bushu/Odawara ju, I cant find anything else, is he noteworthy and when was he active etc? Lastly, Are this menuki shown unusual? Blossoming lotus or peony??( Not sure), in that it shows the top of the flower on omote side of the tsuka and under-side view on the ura? Any input will be appreciated. Thanks, Ed

 

Sorry will resize photos and send.

[Marius]

I am interested in that tanto - can you take pics and post them in the nihonto section, please?

[edzo]

Dear Mariuz,

 

Thanks for your response and suggestions, In this thread i was seeking info on the fittings. I will likely post the blade but that would be as you suggest in the nihonto topic. I believe this to be a shinto blade. Ed.

[Marius]

Sorry not to be helpful, but I guess both the menuki and the kozuka are pretty much ordinary, late Edo stuff. It will be hard to attribute them to a school or maker. WOuld you show us the saya as well?

[edzo]

Dear Mariuz, I will sent the saya photo but need to set up my camera, am at a scanner right now it won't fit. But here is the signature on the kozuka. I've been attempting to collect info on him including signatures. As my initial questions were regarding the theme and proper name for the type of menuki. The name is listed on the signature search on this site but no other info. Ed

[Jimmy R]

The question I believe was one regarding the thematics of the koshirae. It feels en-suite to me Higo of course. The kozuka is definitely a variation on a new years dance. There are literally thousands of this sort of dance with each prefecture and even in some cases individual Cho having their own variation. The shi shi is a symbol of striving in the face of hardship. Those dancers are celebrating the survival of "being thrown into the abyss" and surviving another year. The peony speaks for itself and is the polarization of the aforementioned symbolization. This is all rooted and defined a little more clearly in Chinese mythology. It has it's origins in ancestor worship. I would love to own this yoroi doshi. Beautiful.

Jim

[edzo]

Dear Jim, thank you very much for your assistance and time. I hope you forgive my ignorance, i'm new to this. What you have said makes sense to me now however, I don't know what you are referring to with "yoroi doshi", would you mind explaining? Thanks, Ed

[Marius]

I don't know what you are referring to with "yoroi doshi", would you mind explaining?

 

That is an often misused term, denoting a sturdy (thick), yet narrow tanto meant to penetrate armour in close combat. These tanto are usually around 20 cm in length (nagasa), but they have a rather longish nakago, which your sword does not seem to have. I bet yours is under 29 cm with a short nakago. Could be a kaiken, a short tanto - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaiken_(dagger)

[edzo]

Hi Mariuz,

Thank you for that definition, The nagasa is 7-5/8" Ed inches and the nakago is short. Here is the koshirae. Any ideas as to age of the koshirae?

though short, it is very hefty,

Edit the kasane at the habaki is 6mm.

[Geraint]

Dear Edward,

 

I too really like this tanto koshirae in terms of its overall design. The most obvious distinguishing feature of a yoroi doshi is it's thickness at the habaki; normal tanto appear to be a normal thickness whereas a yoroi doshi will be significantly thicker at the back edge to make for a much stiffer blade in order to penetrate armour. There is a term for menuki mounted outrside the ito which I am afraid escapes me at the moment though I am sure others will step in with the information.

 

Cheers

[Jimmy R]

There are several in the Sano museum under 20cm that have the characters for "yoroi doshi" or "armor piercer" as the description. This is obviously a yoroi doshi strictly meant for piercing to the hilt in any situation. By the way this type of knife was Carried between wraps in the obi. I saw a demonstration at hirado castle with Edo armor and live Nihonto and he put this exact type of knife deep in his obi.

Jim

[edzo]

Jim, Thanks for that, I will be posting the blade in nihonto when ready in case you are interested. Ed

[Marius]

Edward,

 

bet we are interested

[Geraint]

But just for now, here is a link to a yoroi doshi which exemplifies what we have been talking about.

 

http://www.sho-shin.com/yomit.html

[christianmalterre]

?

pretty shure-when "they" pierce into your´s muscles and bones-you certainly would not mind of any "distinctive comparence to word-attributions"-Not?

LOL!(I do Joke!)

Speaking honestly...

There´s no difference!

The Koshirae may change-the blade not(in good case)-so equally the formal "expression" does/would change...that´s all that "magic" behind...

 

Christian

[edzo]

Dear Geraint, thanks for the link! Wow, that powerfull among other things. Ed

[Tanto54]

As you may be able to see from my avatar, the combination of lion dogs (shishi) and peonies (Botan) is a popular motif in Japanese art. You can search Shishi Mai (lion dog dance) or Shishi Botan for more information. The flower is definitely a peony (Botan). My understanding of the meaning of this pairing is different than the one previously offered. The combination symbolizes bravery and elegance and represents the spirit of the Samurai. Legend says that the lion dogs loved to eat these flowers so they are often seen together. In addition, the peony is considered the "Queen of Flowers" and the shishi is considered the "King of Beasts" so the combination is also a good yin/yang. There is also the legend of Shakkyo and Monju Bosatsu which has a shishi that prances around a peony (that's why you often see the shishi dancing around a peony on larger surfaces like tsuba).

[edzo]

Dear George M.,

Thank you very much for that explanation it makes more sense en suite and confirms in my mind that the mountings were obviously well thought. Thanks again, Ed