Tsuba Help...

[Soshin]

Hi Everyone,

 

I often don't list tsuba help topics on the NMB as I have became more experienced (10 years now) but this new tsuba of mine I don't have a clue in terms of the school. :? It has brass inlays that by virtue of their color indicates a early production period when brass was imported from China before the Edo Period. The style of inlay is different then what you see in Heianjo, Onin, or Kaga tsuba therefore the idea of Ko-Shoami comes to mind as they also often used brass inlays but in a different style. The measurements for the tsuba are as follows: 8.0 X 7.5 cm with a tickness of 4 mm at the mimi as well as the seppa-dai. Thank you for taking the time to read and reply to my post.

The design in Japanese is Fuji meaning the Japanese Wisteria flower (Wisteria floribunda). The Wistera flower is often found in the kamon of samurai of the Kaga Province modern day Yamanashi Prefecture west of Tokyo near Mount Fuji.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[Ford Hallam]

Hi David

 

in my opinion using the colour of a copper alloy to determine it's composition and thereby it's speculative origin is not a very reliable start.

 

The whole 'theory' that imported brass can be somehow identified by it's patina colour ignores the fact the metal alloys as used in workshops or studios are always reworked by the makers, invariably by remelting and casting into more usable ingots to be subsequently forged into plate or rod/wire. In the case of zinc containing alloys this reworking can dramatically alter the composition because zinc, being extremely volatile at high temperatures, tends to burn off. Anyone who has ever smelted brass can attest to the billowing white clouds that the molten alloy produces. The fumes are actually toxic and can result in an unpleasant illness known as "zinc shakes".

 

The colour of brass inlay will depend far more on the conditions it has been exposed to, and the length of time, rather than the actual composition.

 

Rather then focus on such a small aspect of the tsuba I think it would be more revealing to examine the rest of the workmanship.

[Soshin]

Hi Ford,

 

Thanks for the reply and the help. You are right to not put much emphasis of the inlays. Can't sleep so I was up looking at some of my many tosogu books. From looking at how the Wisteria design is rendered I think the technique is katakiribori (片切彫) which I don't see often in iron. This carving technique is more often seen in kinko tsuba and other tosogu. The carving looks to extend into the shape of the rim forming the individual petals of the Wisteria flower. The adjusting chisel marks (yose-tagane) around the nakago-ana as well as the shape of the kogai-hitsu ana reminds me of some of the Higo schools. I am not to knowledgeable when it comes to Higo schools in general and will need to do more research on that. :?

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[Ford Hallam]

Hi David,

 

glad to help where I can

 

I wouldn't call that kata-kiri work though. This is simply fairly rough carving. A more refined approach would be to continue carving ever more subtle facets of metal away until a more even shaping is achieved. Then the finely faceted, 'as chiselled', surface would be worked over with a fine ishime-like punch or alternatively the ground would be scraped smooth and finished by polishing with suitable abrasive stones.

 

Kata-kiri really only refers to the brush stroke effect it yields and where it imitates a painting. In practice half of all all carving in the round employs the side of a similar chisel. This is probably how Yokoya Somin hit upon the notion of simply using these marks in their own right, kata-kiri is in many respects the first stage of any carving into a plate because the cut both defines the forms and removes adjacent metal thus providing relief.

 

Hope that makes sense...if not you'll just have to spend a few days in my studio and I'll demonstrate. :D

 

cheers,

 

fh

[raven2]

Very interesting and Dave I really like that tsuba.

[Soshin]

  Ford Hallam said:

This is simply fairly rough carving. A more refined approach would be to continue carving ever more subtle facets of metal away until a more even shaping is achieved. Then the finely faceted, 'as chiselled', surface would be worked over with a fine ishime-like punch or alternatively the ground would be scraped smooth and finished by polishing with suitable abrasive stones.

Hi Ford,

 

I think the rough carving is intentional on the part of tsubako as well as a limitation of the medium. Sometimes tsubako would strive for simplicity, rusticity, and gauche in such a bold design. I was referring to the carving as katakiri-bori because the angle of the cuts by the chisel long the surface of the tsuba. I would agree in kinko tosogu the carving of katakiri-bori is often complex and looks like strokes of a painters brush. I think there are three factors effecting the cuts of the chisel in this context one is the softness of the medium in the case of kinko tosogu made of something like shakudo, shibuchi, or something hard like iron, the skill of the artisan, and intended effect of the design as controlled by tsubako.

 

Hi Fred D.,

 

Thanks for the comment. I love how the rim and overall shape of the tsuba is included into the design on the tsuba. The brass dot inlays also do a good job contrasting with the darkness of the iron and highlighting the peddles of the Wisteria.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[Ford Hallam]

Hi David,

 

I'm afraid your assumptions about the working properties of metal and limitations these may impose on the artist/artisan are unfounded. As one example, the most favoured metal for classic kata-kiri work is shibuichi....which is in terms of chiselling about as firm and resistant as iron. Shibuichi is in fact more 'crisp' compared to the slightly sticky character of iron or low carbon steel.

 

And personally speaking I have reservations about this type of supposed 'rustic' aesthetic being ever particularly well appreciate in Japan. There is a world of difference between the sort of uncontrived 'selfless' workmanship that follows from an expert hand, such as that expressed so eloquently in the various 'tea-bowls' prized by tea masters of the past, and simple rough/careless work. The tea-bowls Sen no Rikyu selected were made by anonymous Korean potters and were made as part of a batch of similar works, each thrown with an almost unconscious skill, effortless and unaffected by any ego's need to 'show off. Simple, functional and honest.

 

To achieve the same degree of effortless mastery in metal is perhaps far more challenging because the material is so resistant to being formed compared to clay. Whereas clay is immediate in the way it reflects even the slightest touch of the makers hand metal demands a more focused and concentrated discipline and control. In my opinion it is a profound error to regard rough or careless work as an expression of those most revered of Japanese aesthetics; wabi, sabi, shibui or yugen.

 

I would go further and suggest that using words like 'rustic' and 'gauche", with their English meanings of 'simple, artless, graceless or unsophisticated', simply relegates all rough work to the same sort of elevated aesthetics that Japanese writers and poets have extolled for centuries ...and this is obviously a nonsense. No Japanese work worthy of the Western label 'art' is ever graceless or unsophisticated. To begin to grasp what the real art/aesthetic is really hinting at requires us to put aside our own superficial projections of what we think and to be guided by what the great artists and connoisseurs of the past had to say on the matter.

 

If we don't return to first principles in this regard we are in serious danger of being overwhelmed by aesthetically valueless dross pretentiously elevated to the status of 'high art'. And we've seen what a jolly mess that sort of unthinking worship can lead to, to wit; Tracy Emmin's unmade bed

 

Sorry to 'go off on one' :? on your thread but this is something that has been bugging me for a while now and my diplomacy dyke can't take any more. Your tsuba simply served as a vehicle to allow me to express my opinion....and it is merely my own opinion.

 

respectfully,

 

Ford

[Soshin]

Hi Ford,

 

Just to let you know that this tsuba is not the end all be all of my collection. :D I would rate it on the lower side of my collection among the few things that I like but would never bother submitting to Shinsa. I was thinking it was a unsigned school piece at best but it might just be a obscure unsigned country piece made during the later part of the Edo Period and not really fitting in anywhere. Outside of the NMB people are calling for me to write so I will take a break from message board and come back to it once I have completed the other hobby related projects in my free time between work hours. Thanks again for you insights and observations as a modern day tsubako on the subject.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[b.hennick]

David - Ford was not replying as a tsubako so much, but as a student of sword fittings. He makes wonderful pieces because he studies fittings and has great talents. As an artist he has viewpoints on art. These exist because he has studied and learned a lot. He certainly does not need me to defend him, his views or his work. I have purchased his work as I both like it and want to support him in his journey.

I look forward to his posts as they are well reasoned and have evidence to back them up. We are lucky to have him on messageboard. Having said that I value your input and the pieces that you put up for discussion.

[Ford Hallam]

David,

 

please don't take my comments as being a personal criticism or a slight. As I said, I was merely using this particular example to make a point I've long been thinking about our discussion simply allowed me to put into words what had been troubling me for some time.

 

I sincerely hope that despite what I have to say being perhaps a 'bitter pill' to swallow anyone with similar 'rustic' type pieces in their collections take time to seriously reappraise their apparent qualities. My intention is not to try and belittle anyone's taste or collection but rather to bring to the overall discussion my perspective on the subject. I do believe that because I spend all of my time immersed in this world, and on a very practical level, I may have a fairly unique view that may shed light on aspects that otherwise might not be too closely considered.

 

I apologies if I've cause undue offence.

 

Barry,

 

Thank you kindly for your understanding and support. It's always reassuring to know that what you're doing and saying is appreciated.

 

regards,

 

Ford

[christianmalterre]

Ford,

 

i think there´s absolutely no reason at all to apology yoursself here!

Far away!

You are definitely right and your´s words here do only represent the thoughts of many collectors i think(?),not just mine own here.

Especially the "field" Tsuba is far from easy to study,and there´s very certainly an much higher "need" in critical analysis,than just simplifying onesself proceeds in just referencing some written sources here...

 

(Of course-we both will still stay friends as long the "Rustic" thematics will not ben discussed heading into the Yagyu-Group ...LOL!)

 

Attached an little charming essaye which may fitt in some points regarding this discussion here.

Me personally do love it a lot

Interested readers may judge for themself please....

 

Chris

[Ford Hallam]

Cheers Chris

 

Yagyu works are a very good example, actually, of the sort of authentic 'uncontrived' workmanship we really should be looking for. So we'll not fall out over that group

 

 

"One cannot develop taste from what is of average quality but only from the very best."

Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

[Toryu2020]

FWIW David -

I would look at Choshu works to see if there aren't similar examples like yours out there...

-t

[Soshin]

Hi Everyone,

 

I am not taking anything personally and considering it a valuable learning experience. I do need to work on a article I am writing. Tom H., I think Choshu would be a good place to start my search. The school was very large and prolific. Their quality also has a board range from average to masterpieces.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[docliss]

Dear David, my personal preference, for what it is worth, is for an Aizu Shōami provenance. John L.

[Soshin]

Dear John L.,

 

Generally the samething I said for Choshu can be applied to Aizu Shoami school. Thanks for your input.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[Mark Green]

I like your tsuba Dave.

 

I think it is a Bungo made tsuba!

 

 

Mark G

[Soshin]

Hi Mark G.,

 

Thanks for liking my tsuba. I am not familiar with the Bungo group or school. Could you provide some additional information or where to find some additional information about this group or school? Thank you very much.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[b.hennick]

I think that was a joke. When shinsa groups do not know what to call a blade they attribute it to Bungo. At least it appears that way. To all old timers "Where is Milt when you need him?"

[John A Stuart]

Hi Barry, He is curently on his way to Germany. He is active on-line and I have asked him to look in. Must be too busy. John

[b.hennick]

Good to know that he is alive and well.

I miss the guy!