Have you insured your collection?

[Jussi Ekholm]

Well as I was fortunate enough to get a brand new rental apartment after living over 4 years in moldy rathole, I had to change my insurances as I move to new apartment. At the same time I thought I should take an insurance to my sword collection (aside from normal household insurance). Well I was surprised how easy and cheap it was. As my collection is still fairly small I took a little space for future purchases in the insurance too.

 

Now I know that Finland has very good insurance policies but still I was surprised at the low cost. For 25€ per year my swords are protected against thefts, fire and water damage. Well the two latter are not probable as the building is new, and the theft is very unlikely as I live in better neighbourhood now and on the 6th floor. But in case something horrible will happen 25€'s is really bargain deal.

 

The funny thing is that they didn't ask for any appraisals or information of my pieces. I did suggest that I could send photos and details of all the pieces but that wasn't necessary. We decided together that I would write down a list of the items and send it to them. Now I understand that insuring swords in Finland is very rare and the companies do not have any instructions to a situation like this one. So I guess my own appraisals are enough proof for them.

 

I would like to know if you have your collection insured. It would also be nice to have little chat about insurance policies in different countries and if it's easy or hard to insure swords and antique items. Since I couldn't found much insurance talk on the forums I decided to make this thread.

[b.hennick]

There is collectors insurance available in the U.S. that is comprehensive and inexpensive. My concern about your insurance, as with any insurance, is that you will need to provide documented evidence of value before you could collect from the insurance company. Your word will not count at all.

If you really want ot be insured, you will need to get legitimate appraisals. I suggest that at the very least you photograph everything and keep all papers seperate from the swords/fittings. If you have a safety deposit box, keep the papers and a description or a video of the pieces in the box.

Insurance ia great until you need it ,then it becomes a battle over what you lost and what it actually was worth.

Finally, unfortunately collectors insurance is not available in Canada. An inexpensive rider ($10) will bring the value of your home and contents together to cover contents losses. Same situation re: valuations.

Like life insurance you never do want to collect!

[John A Stuart]

That is so true Barry. I tried to get insurance as a seperate policy for my collection. I was told I would need professional appraisals to prove value. Impossible. There are certain people in Canada who say they could provide these sort of things, but, I don't trust their validity if the worst was to happen. NBTHK, NTHK or any other papers like that are not recognised, since, they provide no evaluation. My biggest worry is fire, or the polar ice caps melting and flooding me. John

[drbvac]

Same story on the East Coast = most one can get is additional coverage for "house contents" and even for furniture you at least should go around your house and film,video everything. IT is not just for evaluation but God forbid you end up with a pile of soaking wet ashes inside your foundation - you will never remember that little print on the wall in the den worth $1000.00.

 

I have an alarm on the house but read this morning: Down South Security

 

1. Go to Goodwill and buy a pair of size 14-16 men's work boots.

 

2. Place them on your front porch, along with a copy of Guns & Ammo Magazine.

 

3. Put four giant dog dishes next to the boots and magazines.

 

4. Leave a note on your door that reads ......

 

Bubba,

 

Bertha, Duke, Slim, & I went for more ammo and beer. Be back in an

hour. Don't mess with the pit bulls. They got the mailman this morning

and messed him up bad. I don't think Killer took part, but it was hard

to tell from all the blood. Anyway, I locked all four of 'em in the

house. Better wait outside. Be right back.

 

Cooter

[Ken-Hawaii]

Brian is right on the film & video, but the still images are what will get you paid the fastest for swords or anything else. I speak from plenty of catastrophe experience: On January 14, 2004 at 11:05 AM, my wife & I watched in horror as a 141-mph wind gust blew off the roof of our two-story house, followed by 6.1 inches of rain. It took us 19 months to get everything repaired & replaced, & that is with our insurance company working with us! They paid out $392,781.92, just for the record.

 

Here's how we got so much help: Walk around with a video camera & slowly pan around each room to get the overview of how your room is set up. This will not only help you to remember just what was in that room, but also how it was configured. Before leaving that room, do a slow video zoom & pan on closeups of anything of high value (artwork, books, Persian carpets, etc.). Once your video is done for all rooms AND outside, then grab your digital camera & do the same thing with high-resolution still images. If you have a china cabinet, for example, open the doors & take a couple of shots of your china & silverware. Lay out your swords one at a time, & get good shots of the blade, koshirae, sayagaki, origami, etc. Your insurance company wil first look at the extent of your damages, followed by lots of questions on just how you furnished your house - not what your furniture looked like (although that's also a factor), but rather whether it was high-end, mid-range, or a pig sty. This will most definitely determine how much help you get & how quickly they will pay out.

 

Once you've done all this, remember that it won't help at all if your house burns down with your video footage & digital photos still inside. We keep a copy of our frequently-updated video & photos in a safe-deposit box at our bank, & whenever I leave the house, I carry a 1 TB portable drive that has all this info along with key info for our 25-year-old consulting business. Paying for insurance is useless if you don't have the documentation to support it!

 

Ken

[Jussi Ekholm]

Guess that is what I feared for when I started to thinking it was going too smoothly in the insurance company. And the fact that they refused to take my pictures and documentation got me bit worried. It's a good thing that I'm a slight hoarder and I still have all of my receipts from sword/sword related purchases saved for all the items I currently have. Of course it would be a battle if the item was truely worth the amount I paid for it in insurance companies point of view.

 

That deposit box idea is good one. As I have all things stored in my harddrive I'll back up my documentation and pictures and store them in my parents house too, might even want to scan those receipts too. The professional appraisals would be tricky one to get, since there is only 1 antique shop in Finland that deals some nihonto. And I don't even have any papered pieces so I think in my opinion the values might be much too low (I tend to have sentimental attachment to things I own). And I don't even know if his word would be enough proof to insurance company. I don't know about the receipts of foreign sword dealers/collectors but they might count for some proof.

 

I tend to be overly cautious, and I believe that fire is my worst fear. Since it could start from another apartment and burn down the whole building. Or then there could be damage to waterpipes that could cause flooding. Now that I'm moving into better neighbourhood the likelyness of theft is much decreased. As I only have a beginners collection at the moment, it's not that big worry now. But after many more years of collecting and improving my collection, it might start to be a real worry.

 

That additional coverage for "house contents" was the first that was offered here in Finland too. But as a poor student my house contents aren't of much value and I wanted more to have a seperate policy.

 

Very sorry to hear about that disaster Ken.

[Sporkkaji]

The only insurance policy I have is a 600+ pound insulated Liberty fire safe bolted to the floor from the inside, but I feel pretty secure. http://www.libertysafe.com/

[Bugyotsuji]

Many thanks for the information. There is no fool-proof system, but it seems better to be prepared, as far as is possible.

 

Some friends in London were burgled and the wife gave a list off the top of her head as to what was missing. Later she remembered some other valuable bits that had disappeared, but the insurance company would only accept what she had stated at the time in her shocked state.

 

There seems to be a wide gap between the popular perception of insurance companies and the reality of how they work.

[Ken-Hawaii]

The only insurance policy I have is a 600+ pound insulated Liberty fire safe bolted to the floor from the inside, but I feel pretty secure.

 

I have a very large 1200-pound safe bolted the same way, but that didn't stop the flooding from the rain from getting inside & doing considerable damage, & the same applies to having a fire burn your house down. Take those photos, too - if you don't bother with insurance, at least the photos will help you to remember what your pristine blades looked like beforehand.

 

Ken

[Jean]

Question John:

 

Is the invoice/Bill of sale of the sword not enough?

[paulb]

Hi Jean,

Not trying to answer for John but I am currently going through this exercise again and certainly in the UK an invoice/bill of sale is not acceptable. Specialist insurers require:

description

value in local currency

details of the qualifications of the valuer

They do not specify what the minimum qualification is but as most museums are reluctant to talk in terms of financial value it is likely to have to be an auction house (know less than most here and charge handsomely for the service) or a dealer.

They specifically state that invoices or non English (Japanese) documentation is not acceptable.

I will let you know how I progress.

Regards

Paul

[Jean]

Why not a translation by a sworn/official translator of the NBTHK Certificate?

 

In fact the Insurance Company should not bother about the object, they are insuring a declared value, whatever the paper.

 

I had a sword insured years ago, against the dealer invoice. No problem at all but not cheap.

[paulb]

unfortunately I cannot answer your questions. I think the problem is that your points are logical and insurance companies in the UK seem very short on the supply of that particular benefit.

[Jean]

I am using Generali as Insurance Company

[Mark Andrews]

Dear Friends,

 

May I just add also here in Australia, regarding House & Contents insurance. If you invite or higher a trades person or persons into your home, and you have not "checked and noted" his or hers Police clearance # or that person has no ID or Police clearance .Then if the person decides to take a valuable item or come back and break in or tell a friend who breaks in to your home, you are not covered to claim. You must prove to the insurance company that you made a clear note of ID or Police clearance # so it can be traced to company etc etc by the Police and the Insurance company.

 

These days many trade persons have no such "police clearance" or any form of ID on them or they are also a sub contractor etc. If they don't have the ID or Police clearance ,they don't get past my door these days. Also if you do have a collection in view, move it into another room or place it somewhere safe while the work is carried out in in your home.I had such a problem of this kind 6 years ago.The Insurance company at that time was not interested.And I failed to check his Police clearance .

 

 

Its easier now just to collect teddy bears and cheap stuffed toys :lol:

 

Best regards,

 

Mark.

[Jean]

Mark,

 

There is only one issue:

 

- each home should have a "barbacane" - some kind of military fortification -I don't know the English word for this but Wikipedia shall give you a definition (I don't think that the translation is weephole)

[John A Stuart]

Barbican

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbican

John

[Jean]

Thanks John

[Mark Andrews]

Thanks Jean & John,

 

I like the Wiki pics of the Barbican.This would look nice as a front entrance to my home.It could push up the Insurance cost though as a Heritage listed building :lol: Does this also mean I need contractors to build this Barbican on the front of my house .

 

What I really need is 2 or 3 Deer hounds :lol:

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[Ken-Hawaii]

Jean, we have a few attack geese that do a really great job of keeping unwanted guests away. They attack in a pack, stick right to our property, & are amazingly smart.

 

And of course we have our sign posted: Watch out for geese, but beware of owners!

 

Ken

[drbvac]

Mark:

 

You mention the trades people being bonded or certified but a couple of friends with the police state that in this day and age the number one way people get acquainted with your "stuff" and your house are friends of friends of your kids who have visited your home and seen whats there !

 

My den where the "stuff" was always stored is a locked room and the key is on my keychain - my kids were allowed friends in of course but certain areas were closed and kids with no supervision were not allowed. The police said in this day of drug addictions people would rob their grandparents to support their habit - so a parent of a friend - no brainer, Add to that the disaster that could happen with a drug addict in possession of a weapon that could cut a person in two = bad outcomes.

[Mark Andrews]

Hi Brian,

 

Totally agree with your comments.Great points raised. Ken,The attack geese sound great! but not inside with the my chickens :lol: Most of the kids these days are not "old school" and have no respect for others property & have no "inner conscience" There are some good kids out there though, I must admit.

 

After my little problem here in Australia.I quickly had a room set up for my small collection. No windows and strong door/small safe and locks.

 

As mentioned by other colleagues on previous threads here.All paper work & receipts, NBTHK all separate as well. Have taken pictures of the room from all angles, including items on display.My Insurance company has now a little understanding of my hobby. I have had great help with the assistance of Bonhams on some of the values of my items. Others are still not insured though.But at the end of the day, this all still comes at a price.A higher premium price.I think I'm happy with most of the insurance cover on my collection.

 

Best regards,

 

Mark.

[raaay]

Dear All

 

Just a *NOTE OF WARNING* not about insurance, re how your collection gets discussed down the local pub

if you display your collection in a room , never have your swords etc displayed on the walls where your local window cleaner can see or some off his many staff ? this info came through a good source, it was a innocent chat in the bar about what had been seen through the windows of a house by a window cleaner, weeks later many antiques were stolen to order.

 

ray

[Ken-Hawaii]

Ray makes a very good point. When we rebuilt our second floor after the flood, I decided to relocate the wall rack with our "working weapons" - shinken, yari, etc. - on a different wall. But a few days later, a friend came over & was talking with me down at the base of my driveway; he pointed upstairs & asked why I had "all those swords up there." It never occurred to me that they could be seen from the street! We quickly moved them back out of sight.

 

And in my earlier post, I completely forgot one very important insurance issue: having a complete written description of your blades. I created a very detailed PDF entitled "Sword Description & Characteristics" that lists every detail I could think of including type, mei, lengths, measurements, hada, hamon, yakiba, etc., etc. I keep the printed PDF file in the safe deposit box along with the origami & backup storage. If someone can tell me how to post a 288KB PDF file on here, I'll be happy to share it with everyone. I created it as "fillable," so you can use Adobe Acrobat (not Reader) or one of the other PDF freebies to fill out checkboxes, type in descriptions, etc. Very useful.

 

Ken

[Jussi Ekholm]

Finally I have Internet as I'm visiting my parents... (being limited for net usage by phone is starting to get bit frustrating)

 

Good points have arisen in this thread.

 

I usually invite only close friends and familymembers into my home. As I tend to be of cautious type, plus I don't like half strangers hanging in my home. Well few days ago serviceman came to visit my home (as I've just moved into new apartment). Of course the first thing he laid his eyes on was my sword stand, starting to ask questions about my collection. Well I am a nice guy so I answered to some of his questions and luckily it was a quick visit only. I can just picture him telling his mates about weird swordcolleting young bloke who has moved into that x apartment... (yep maybe bit too paranoid)

 

As my last apartment was on the ground floor I had to keep the curtains closed all the time. Slightly bad neighbourhood and sometimes shady people just "hanging" outside peoples windows.

 

Ken that PDF is really good idea. I've been doing somewhat similar Word-document for each piece.

[Brian]

And in my earlier post, I completely forgot one very important insurance issue: having a complete written description of your blades. I created a very detailed PDF entitled "Sword Description & Characteristics" that lists every detail I could think of including type, mei, lengths, measurements, hada, hamon, yakiba, etc., etc. I keep the printed PDF file in the safe deposit box along with the origami & backup storage. If someone can tell me how to post a 288KB PDF file on here, I'll be happy to share it with everyone. I created it as "fillable," so you can use Adobe Acrobat (not Reader) or one of the other PDF freebies to fill out checkboxes, type in descriptions, etc. Very useful.

 

Ken

Thanks to Ken for providing this document for our use.

 

Brian

Nihonto_Documentation_Master.pdf

[edzo]

Hi guys,

Just a comment, an auctioneer advised me once that a ligitimate (licensed), appraiser would consider in his valuation, regarding art works or swords, that the value for "replacement" though literally not possible unless the item is recovered, That they consider the cost to replace the item or close to it. That consideration would include the costs associated with acqusition and costs associated with finding, shipping, authenticating etc. It is not uncommon to insure an item for 30% more than the value of an item on its own. Don't know where or even if this is a practice in other countries. These policies can be updated annually, I've been told. Ed