drjoe Posted February 15, 2012 Report Posted February 15, 2012 simple beginner's question that i've been wondering about for a while: i have a general understanding about the difference between a tachi (worn blade down, often intended for horse mounted combat, often longer and thinner, with sori that clearly extends into the nakago) and a (uchi)katana (worn blade up and tucked into the belt, shorter on average, and usually with less sori especially in the nakago), but often i am at a loss to correctly identify which one a blade is when looking at an unmounted piece. are there some hard and fast rules that determine which is which? then there are more semantic issues -- if a tachi is mounted as a uchigatana (i presume that happens), is it still a tachi? or if the tachi's nakago has been cut-down, is the suriage blade still a tachi or can it "become" a katana? and does it really matter what you call it when you're attempting kantei? Quote
John A Stuart Posted February 15, 2012 Report Posted February 15, 2012 Other way around Joe. Tachi, slung blade down. Uchigatana or katana worn blade up in the obi. Tachi are generally longer than katana, but, if put in a koshirae for katana would still be katana whether suriage or not. The problem would be if not suriage nuki would be a problem for most people. Still calling the sword a tachi can be used as in tachiai, or tachimei as opposed to katanamei. John Quote
Ken-Hawaii Posted February 15, 2012 Report Posted February 15, 2012 Joe, just to make sure you understand, a katana is worn blade edge (ha) up, & a tachi ha down. Other than that, good question. Ken Quote
drjoe Posted February 15, 2012 Author Report Posted February 15, 2012 Ken-Hawaii said: Joe, just to make sure you understand, a katana is worn blade edge (ha) up, & a tachi ha down. Other than that, good question. Ken oops -- that was a simple, stupid typo. i knew that! in fact, it's so embarassing, i'm going to go edit the original post! Quote
runagmc Posted February 15, 2012 Report Posted February 15, 2012 Read this, http://www.ksky.ne.jp./~sumie99/tachi,katana.html Quote
drjoe Posted February 15, 2012 Author Report Posted February 15, 2012 runagmc said: Read this, http://www.ksky.ne.jp./~sumie99/tachi,katana.html yes, i think i stumbled upon that link in the past. it is helpful. i think probably part of the answer to my question is that when i've looked a photos of bare blades and thought it was a katana, the reason it's listed as a tachi is due to one or more of the following: 1) the tachimei (something i've never really paid close attention to), 2) the fact that it's suriage, 3) the mounts (which are often not shown in the pictures), and 4) the era in which the blade was forged. Quote
Curgan Posted February 16, 2012 Report Posted February 16, 2012 In fact the best way to define the difference between a tachi and a katana is the mei. Other than that there are no rules set on stone based on the sugata, type of koshirae or other... Quote
John A Stuart Posted February 16, 2012 Report Posted February 16, 2012 Hi John, I must say, absolutely not!! There are smiths who signed tachimei on katana. The defining thing is the type of mounting. I will let Clive's article continue. http://www.to-ken.com/articles/Koshirae.htm John Quote
Grey Doffin Posted February 16, 2012 Report Posted February 16, 2012 Not a hard and fast rule (there are none here) but another indication is the distance between the mekugi ana and machi. Tachi ana are typically set 4 finger widths (pointer, social, ring, & pinky) from the machi; katana ana are the 1st 3 of those finger's width from the machi. I have a tachi with 4 mekugi ana, which would lead you to believe it has been shortened 3 times. Not so; the lower 2 ana could be the original nagasa mounted as tachi and as katana, and the upper 2 tachi & katana after shortening. Grey Quote
Jean Posted February 16, 2012 Report Posted February 16, 2012 The question is about shortened tachi mei blades. I have read that they are considered as katana. John is right, the name is given by the mounting. You say for a blade that it is tachi mei or katana mei. Most blades are katana meaning a blade which is to be worn with the cutting edge upwards. Mumei or not, tachi or katana mei, it becomes a katana if it is worn edge upward. BTW, as indicated by John, hizen swords though katana by destination are tachi mei. Quote
Curgan Posted February 17, 2012 Report Posted February 17, 2012 Hi John. Thanks for the correction! Quote
Robert Janssen Posted February 17, 2012 Report Posted February 17, 2012 Hi Joe, I had a slight déjà-vu feeling about this post, so I went back and searched for a similar thread I remembered and I found it: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=11152&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=tachi It's mostly the same question as yours, with some good discussions and is an interesting read for sure. Hope this was helpful to you! Robert Quote
drjoe Posted February 18, 2012 Author Report Posted February 18, 2012 Robert Janssen said: Hi Joe, I had a slight déjà-vu feeling about this post, so I went back and searched for a similar thread I remembered and I found it: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=11152&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=tachi It's mostly the same question as yours, with some good discussions and is an interesting read for sure. Hope this was helpful to you! Robert good discussion. thanks! Quote
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