Gimei Tsuba...

[Henry Wilson]

The lower one used to belong to me (I think)

[Soshin]

Chris, David,

 

The problem with the whole idea of the "parallel but independent" group of artisans making copies without connection to the "real" Yamakichibei workshop is that there is no good reason I have ever seen stated and expounded upon that would sustain this viewpoint logically rather than the other. If Okamoto's words have weight, namely, that these "parallel" tsubako created works so exceedingly good that telling them from the work of the "real" Yamakichibei is as difficult as he suggests, why would the go-to conclusion be that it must be "parallel" artisans, rather than artisans of the actual atelier? This frankly makes no sense, unless one has information which none of the rest of us has.

 

Steve

 

Hi Steve,

 

This was just a thought experiment on my part and nothing more to explain the shinsa result. It was not a codified theory.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[Marius]

many thanks, Ian

[cabowen]

Chris, David,

 

The problem with the whole idea of the "parallel but independent" group of artisans making copies without connection to the "real" Yamakichibei workshop is that there is no good reason I have ever seen stated and expounded upon that would sustain this viewpoint logically rather than the other. If Okamoto's words have weight, namely, that these "parallel" tsubako created works so exceedingly good that telling them from the work of the "real" Yamakichibei is as difficult as he suggests, why would the go-to conclusion be that it must be "parallel" artisans, rather than artisans of the actual atelier? This frankly makes no sense, unless one has information which none of the rest of us has.

 

Knowing the Japanese penchant for copying anything popular, and the existence historically of other groups that simply copied the work of others, never mind the legions of gimei swords and kodogu, I would think the possibility exists-it seems to make sense to the experts in Japan.....

 

As for the idea that such "new theories" as these will not gain traction without additional evidence, I would just ask where, exactly, the evidence is for there having been just the two masters of the Momoyama period? This is, of course, the popular, traditional understanding, but where, precisely, does it come from? Is there actual evidence for it? I have never seen even the slightest hint of an actual, documentable source for this notion... Given all that has been published about Yamakichibei tsuba in various publications (including several I have had translated), it is surprising, to put it mildly, that not a single word would be offered explaining and documenting the "historical truth" of there having been just the two Yamakichibei masters.

 

Traditions die hard. Perhaps you ought to write to Okamoto/NBTHK and ask these questions....

[Soshin]

Hi Everyone,

 

The debate is long dead on this thread but I want to post some new photos I did of the "gimei" tsuba in question. I was also able to photograph the nice iron bones along the rim as well. The glossiness and color of the patina is nicely captured in the photos. Enjoy.

 

P.S. I love my new digital camera. Go Olympus! :D

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[Jean]

David, please resize systematically your pics so that they appear directly on the screen without having each time to go back and forth through links. Thanks in advance/

[Brian]

Yep. It's currently 913 x 719. You only have to get it down to 800 wide and it will show directly. 72 to 96 dpi is enough for web too.

 

Brian

[Soshin]

Hi Brian and Jean,

 

The composite image has been resized so that it isn't linking. Enjoy... :D

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[Jean]

Thanks a lot David. Every member posting pictures should be thoughtful of other members