Samurai Family

[Henry Wilson]

Does any one have any info on the Moniwa family?

 

I think I have their family crest on a tsuba I recently bought.

 

Cheers

[Guido]

The attached picture shows the last head of the Moniwa family. The resemblence with me is pretty obvious, so it should be clear that the Tsuba rightfully belongs to me. Henry, please mail it to my office address; thank you!

[Stever]

Mr. Schiller,

 

That resemblence isn't just obvious, it's positively frightening! Past life you didn't know about?

 

cheers

[Henry Wilson]

Thanks Guido. It does look like you. The tsuba is in the post :D

 

Do you or any one have an image of the family mon so I can compare....

[Ichi]

Yo Henry,

 

Guido's descendant is attributed to Date clan of Sendai. I read an article

on Date Masamune dispatching envoy to Europe before Tokugawa came in power. Perhaps Guido was one of their offspring. Here is a clipping from Wikipedia:

 

Moniwa Motonori (茂庭元徳, Moniwa Motonori?) (1843-1929) was a Japanese samurai of the late Edo period]. The son of Moniwa Mototoshi, he served as a retainer of the Date clan of Sendai han.[1] Also known by his common name, Shinsuke (新助), Motonori married the daughter of Moniwa Masumoto, the head of the main house of Moniwa.[2] During the Boshin War, Motonori defended Sendai Castle, and later was dispatched to Komagamine.[3] After the Restoration, he became involved in farming, and in 1889, became the first village mayor of Kashimadai Village, in Miyagi Prefecture (now Kashimadai-chō 鹿島台町 in Shida district).[

[Nobody]

Do you or any one have an image of the family mon so I can compare....

This link shows the Mon of Moniwa family.

http://www2.harimaya.com/sengoku/html/moniwa.html

[Henry Wilson]

Ichi your information is valuable because it matches what I have found out so thanks for helping me confirm my shaky research.

 

Moriyama san, thank you for the link to the Moniwa mon as it is very interesting but the mons do not match the mon on my tsuba at all. My example looks like the one in the link below, second from the right which is labeled Moniwa on the site I got it from.

 

http://www.geocities.com/kazenaga23/mon_book.jpg

 

The site page is:

 

http://www.geocities.com/kazenaga23/crests2.htm

 

Could all the mons be link in some way?

 

I feel a little confused at the minute as I have three mons for one family :?

 

Any help to clarify from anyone would be greatly appreciated

[Stever]

And here's yet another Moniwa family mon. This one turned up on google images search.

 

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.samurai-archives.com/dictionary/moniwa.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.samurai-archives.com/dictionary/o2.html&h=80&w=80&sz=9&hl=en&start=11&um=1&tbnid=fm4G_IifHPjv9M:&tbnh=74&tbnw=74&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmoniwa%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dopera%26rls%3Den%26sa%3DN

 

cheers

[Guido]

Henry, I still haven't received the Tsuba, could you please give me the tracking number?

 

But seriously, it's extremely difficult to trace a Kamon back to a certain family, or even individual, without supporting evidence. For instance, the Kuyô-Mon on a Tsuba by Hirata Hikozo leaves little doubt that it was made for the Hosokawa family. But Kamon were not copyrighted, and basically could be chosen and changed freely - just look at the attachement, those are the Kamon that Date Masamune used.

[Guido]

BTW, my firewall found a virus when accessing the Kazenaga homepage, so please be careful with this website!!!

[Henry Wilson]

Hi Guido

 

Yes, the tsuba was returned to me as the man in your office said that it is not of a good enough quality for your collection. Sorry about that but I will bring it along with a few others at the next meeting.

 

So a tsubako (or any one else) could choose a mon and included it in his overall design just to make it look good. A mon in a piece of work does not necessarily mean that it was made for a particular person from a particular family. Am I correct in understanding that?

 

The tsuba in question is a katchushi from late Muromachi, I think quite a serious time, which made me think that "ginger bread" on fittings etc would be unthought of, which makes me think that the tsuba was made for a person with a firm association to that mon.

 

I could be thinking to much

 

Any comments would be greatly appreciated

[Guido]

Yes, the tsuba was returned to me as the man in your office said that it is not of a good enough quality for your collection.

Since when is he allowed to make decisions for me? Kubi da!

So a tsubako (or any one else) could choose a mon and included it in his overall design just to make it look good.

That's entirely possible, but I think it's the other way around: the *customer* had / chose a Mon, and the artist put it on the Tsuba without asking too many questions (not healthy to mess with the Buke, although Kirisute Gomen wasn't in effect yet in the Muromachi Jidai).

 

However, what sometimes looks like a Mon just might be a decorative pattern - think Kiri: you see it on a lot of Tsuba, without it being meant as a Kamon.

I could be thinking to much

Maybe, but you have an excuse: you're married, and that means you can't afford to put your brain in idle even for a split second. (Remember, that's how you *got* married in the first place!)

[Henry Wilson]

Hi Guido

 

Thank you for the reply. Don't fire the poor devil I am sure he had good intentions....

 

Lots of food for thought in the post (never mind the wife ) Back then long ago I could not imagine a smith sucking his teeth and saying "no can do" when asked to do something.

 

It is interetsting that you say that it may not actually be a mon. The sukashi is cut five times in a nice symetrical pattern which makes me think that it might not really be a mon just a nice shape that looks like a mon. I would like to post some pics but my camera skills are non- existant so I will bring the tsuba along some time soon and see what people think of it.

 

Thanks again and nice hair in the intial picture.

 

PS. when was Kirisute Gomen (cutting / slaying of lower ranking people?Am i correct?) first practiced?

[Guido]

I can't find any exact dates, but all books say that 斬り捨て御免 became legal in the early Edo Jidai, and was abandoned in 1871.

 

I still practice it, but that's just me ...

[Nobody]

I made a brief search and found the following info about Kirisute-gomen.

It seems that the rule was explicitly written in Kujikata-Osadamegaki in ca. 1742, although the practice had been existed befor that. Kirisute-gomen was not only the right to kill lower ranking people, but was self-defense to protect honor of samurai.

 

Kirisute-gomen (切捨御免)

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E7%84%A1% ... 3%E3%81%A1

 

Kujikata-Osadamegaki (公事方御定書), ca. 1742 - 1871

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%85%AC% ... A%E6%9B%B8