kantei for quality

[b.hennick]

My friend and I are working on a presentation for our sword club. The topic is kantei for quality or judging quality. We have considered starting with a discussion on what consitutes a "quality sword" and then have the group look at a group of three swords that all have the same hamon type (e.g. suguha). Individually they will be asked to rate them from best to worst. This will be followed by a discussion of the blades. The process will be repeated with a different set of blades.

What I am looking for is your ideas of what the discussion should include.

[cabowen]

A daunting task!

 

First, you need to define what you mean by "quality". Quality from an artistic standpoint? Technical standpoint? Both?

 

When you start talking aesthetics, you start getting into personal preferences which means there will not be agreement and no "right" answers...Is Yamashiro better than Bizen???? Etc....

 

Assuming you want to discuss quality from both an artistic and workmanship standpoint, here are a few things I look for to separate the wheat from the chaff:

 

1. Shape (well balanced and well proportioned. Nothing draws attention to itself.) This illustrates the smith's skill at working the steel and his artistic sense of balance and proportion.

 

2. Kitae (no flaws, clear, even hada without running elements here and there (which often result from flaws in the forging fixed during the initial forging; color of the steel). This points to the smith's ability to purify and work the steel as well as the quality of the steel used.

 

3. Hamon (clear, bright, consistent, without discontinuities and unevenness; pattern should be consistent in shape and height and be fairly similar on both omote and ura; no flaws; nie and nioi consistent in size). This points to the smith's skill at even heat treatment of the blade. It also speaks to the quality of the steel as it is not possible to get a first rate hamon with second rate steel.

 

4. Boshi (well shaped- no falling boshi; even, relaxed, natural; nie and nioi consistent in size). It is frequently said that this is the critical part of the sword and the hardest to make well. The smith's skill at both forging and heat treatment are visible here.

 

5. Nakago (well finished with crisp, even yasuri-me; well cut mei that has fluidity and power; no forging flaws visible; edges eased so there are no stress risers). A skilled smith will never make a sword with a poorly done nakago.

 

Workmanship should be consistent with the known work of the smith. Healthy, not tired.

 

Of course many of these points are dependent on a quality polish for proper evaluation. That is why it is often said that a bad polish can kill a sword....

 

Well, that is a fair start.....

 

Best of luck with your presentation Barry....

[John A Stuart]

I agree, mostly.

1) Sugata, nice proportion, sori, nakago, etc.

2) Clean, all of Chris' criteria, kizu, hamon, boshi, polish etc.

3)Balance, determinable mounted only and the most important in the functionality of the sword (after all if it is a clunker albeit artful it will be the death of you)

John

[cabowen]

3)Balance, determinable mounted only and the most important in the functionality of the sword

 

The balance of the mounted sword depends on the koshirae as well as the blade....many times mounted blades can be made to be well balanced by adjusting tsuba size, tsuka length, etc....Not sure how this would enter into an evaluation of the blade by itself....

[nagamaki - Franco]

Hi Barry,

 

Besides adding emphasis to a number of Chris' points, I would add to reread the handout on the topic of 'quality' from the RSG meeting on Sept. 25th, 2004.

 

 

On a slightly different note;

 

3)Balance, determinable mounted only and the most important in the functionality of the sword (after all if it is a clunker albeit artful it will be the death of you)

 

Interesting, because not too long ago I was discussing the topic of test cutts with Mr. Tschernega, who understandably studies the subject extensively, and one interesting point that came out is that test cuts were at times performed without a tsuka using a bare blade only in order to really put the "complete" sword to the test.

[John A Stuart]

Interesting!! I have tried test cuts on the open air with bare blade and found them hard to wield, esp. with short nakago. Wakizashi not so bad. Even with the tsuka of a shirazaya I found it uncomfortable. However there is a certain undefinable feel to a well balanced blade even with no tsuka. I'd be interested in hearing how Mr. Tschernega fared in true cut. This too is probably subjective as I do not appreciate those beefy blades, although I train with one, but, prefer the sakihaba to be narrowly tapered from the width of the motohaba, creating less weight forward. I don't know Chris exactly how to put it. I have some swords that, if, my life was on the line, would object to use. They are fine swords, sound enough, well made, like an iron bar though in how they react. John

[cabowen]

 

Interesting, because not too long ago I was discussing the topic of test cutts with Mr. Tschernega, who understandably studies the subject extensively, and one interesting point that came out is that test cuts were at times performed without a tsuka using a bare blade only in order to really put the "complete" sword to the test.

 

That is the first I have heard of this...Normally a special tsuka was used for test cutting.....

[Lance]

What if you had 3 different quality levels of blade from the same school, like Bizen for example? That way they would all be similar and the best one out of the 3 could show what the other 2 smiths could have been shooting for?

Below is a link to another post with scans drawings from a book that shows the special handles used for Tameshigiri

 

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11036

 

Regards,

Lance

[Eric H]

That is the first I have heard of this...Normally a special tsuka was used for test cutting.....

I wonder how that works without a tsuka...

 

The sword and naginata handles are made of wood. The two halves are placed on the tang, then the iron mekugi is put in. The two iron rings are then jammed of as hard as they will go, then wooden wedges are driven in the top to make the blade absolutely tight in the handle. The handle for the naginata has a hole in the bottom to allow for the length of the tang. No doubt a tester would have quite a selection of these handles to allow for the various tang shapes and sizes. With spears a special tsuba was used to prevent the spearhead getting completely jammed in the head.

(Andrew Ford)

[cabowen]

Come to think of it, there is a story of Nakayama Hakudo, the famous swordsman of the early Showa era, picking up a bare blade by MInamoto Yoshichika and using it to cut through a pig. That is the only instance I have heard of this though....

[Toryu2020]

Back to quality for a minute,

One thing which perhaps has not been mentioned in so many words is balance, but in the sense that all the features are in harmony. Saeru I believe is the word, which can mean clear, clearly or skillfully done. The idea that the smith had absolute control of his material and that shows throughout the work. I love Satsuma swords for all their features, and some of the attitude they transmit. However some teachers point out that the unevenness of the nie, the fact that it grows large and clumps up in places, would not be desirable on other blades.

 

Another example, a strong clearly defined hamon that fades or becomes indistinct in spots would of course not be appreciated as much as one that is clearly done, and in most cases clearly done in the style the smith is known for. Perhaps all this goes without saying (and perhaps this is more into the aesthetics) but it is a comment often seen in written kantei and one I heard often during my short time in Japan.

 

-t

[cabowen]

Back to quality for a minute,

One thing which perhaps has not been mentioned in so many words is balance, but in the sense that all the features are in harmony.

 

I have often heard that expressed as "nothing sticks out" or draws attention to itself....

 

Another example, a strong clearly defined hamon that fades or becomes indistinct in spots would of course not be appreciated as much as one that is clearly done, and in most cases clearly done in the style the smith is known for. Perhaps all this goes without saying (and perhaps this is more into the aesthetics)

 

Actually it has a basis in the quality of the heat treatment and thus is a form following function type of thing. When the yaki-ire is done properly, the hamon and habuchi will be even and clear throughout-kuzure is the term for uneven hamon, mura is fading.....

[nagamaki - Franco]

Whether looking at nihonto or fittings one key factor in evaluating quality is the point that no matter how close you look at a truly high quality item it still looks excellent.

[Eric H]

one key factor in evaluating quality is the point that no matter how close you look at a truly high quality item it still looks excellent.

 

The critical point is, how do you recognize that there is a significant work of art. The answer is simple, only one who has the adequate connoisseurship.

 

What are the features that raises a sword to Juyo?...until now the panel of Japanese experts alone are able and decisive for such a judging. I have read in the past of voices who declare that there are given Juyo to swords not deserving it. Examples would be welcome.

 

On the other hand there are recommendations by sellers like „a good candidate for Juyo“ to help selling those blades. Why do not those „believers“ submit the respective blades on their own, for the expected financial benefit would go in their pockets? Be careful!

 

However, the task promoted by Barry is very challenging, mostly with blades with suguha.

Could be three swords either of the same period or optional of Koto, Shinto, Shinshinto...this would include the major difference in sword tradition.

 

Have a look back on the list by Chris.

 

I add details of a Juyo Katana. Now it‘s up to you to decide if the requirements of the list are met in this case.

 

P.S. the hada leads to the school.

 

Eric

[cabowen]

I have seen several juyo that were on the tired side and/or just not the of the highest quality one would expect. They were however signed examples of rare smiths that had been owned by people of note. I'm not convinced one can assume that because a blade has juyo ranking it is a fantastic work of art....

[b.hennick]

The presentation went well. I want to thanks all who contributed to this thread for helping me to formulate my presentation. I have quoted you liberally in the handout that went with the presentation. It will be published in the JSSUS Newsletter. The first part of the article is on how the presentation was organized and the second is a handout on what positivies to look for when looking for quality and the negatives one should avoid. We think that this will become a yearly program where swords will be presented with a view to judging quality rather than who made it and when was it made.

Again thanks to all contributors!

[Eric H]

the second is a handout on what positivies to look for when looking for quality and the negatives one should avoid

 

Althouth this is something fundamental, namely what distinguishes a „good“ from a „negligible“ sword... as I have expected, no one on the board cares about the result of such excercise...

 

I‘m not a member of the JSSUS and therefore I would appreciate it very much if you could share it...if possible :D

 

Thank you in advance

 

Eric

[Brian]

... as I have expected, no one on the board cares about the result of such excercise...

Eric,

Dunno where you get that, but I can assure you that many, if not most of us care very much about the results. Don't need a long list of replies to know that many are reading and taking in what is said. I am looking forward to getting my issue of the newsletter.

 

Brian

[b.hennick]

My plan is to first publish the article in the JSSUS Newsletter and then once it is in the hands of the membership to post it to messageboard. I had several members of my club email or phone to let me know how much they enjopyed/learned from the presentation.

[Eric H]

Barry,

 

Thank you for the information.

 

Eric

[Grey Doffin]

Hi Eric,

Why not become a member of the JSS/US? I know you'll get to read Barry's article after it gets published in the JSS/US "Newsletter" but there are other benefits with membership that you're missing out on. 90 some % of our content will never be available online, and a lot of it is interesting and informative. Membership helps pay for our translation projects, Kyomono no Ko-Meisaku and Sue Koto being the latest. Sue Koto is 750 pages of study that we sell for $65; where else do you get a deal like that? Unless guys like you join, we can't do more.

And another, less tangible, benefit: the JSS/US is the longest standing, publishing sword society outside of Japan and I'd like to see it continue. It is part of our community, something that helps join us together, and it will be lost to us without members.

http://www.jssus.org to join.

 

Grey Doffin. JSS/US publications guy

[Jean]

Can't help you out of this one Eric, they are (Barry and Grey) using the vice technic. :D

[drbvac]

Grey:

 

Thanks for the link - Pay Pal is great and I would not have just joined otherwise. As a comment: Some of my professional journals are actually cutting back on print and publishing on-line journals only - lot cheaper - more adverstising revenue - you just keep them on the site somewhere for members to access and any articles you want - you open and print. Big beauty of on-line journals is the :search" function to allow you to find what you may really want.

 

In any event - one way or the other - looking forward to first newsletter

 

BB

[Eric H]

Hi Eric,

Why not become a member of the JSS/US?

 

I think this is a very good proposal for all members of NMB with interest in the subject.

 

Jean,

we will see

 

Eric

[Jean]

Eric,

 

I have been trapped already

[paulb]

me too!!

[Eric H]

The trap has been sprung

 

Eric

[Grey Doffin]

Thank you all; your memberships are appreciated.

And while I'm on a roll, please consider writing for our Newsletter. John Eliyas, our editor, is always looking for material to include. You'll get to see your name in print and the Sword Gods will smile on your efforts.

Contact John: eliyasj@comcast.net

 

Grey

[paulb]

Barry,

I read the article in the JSSUS, it is a considerable effort to compile and full of useful and thought provoking points, thank you+. One I wanted to pick up and the one I think most agree is the most difficult to determine is colour. I think the point made about doing a comparative assessment is absolutely right. In any field accurate visual colour assessment is almost always done by comparing a sample against a standard to two similar examples.

Where I do differ is the recommendation to use early morning southern day light albeit diffused through a diffuser or screen. Treading a little carefully here because the standards were set in the Northern hemisphere by the C.I.E. and it may be different south of the Equator, but the published recommendation for viewing and assessing colour is northern daylight. This has been emulated using flourescent tubes, originallly defined as illuminat C and then later modified to incorprate a UV element, to D65 or D6500.

The idea behind this is much the same as that of the old masters who generally lit their studios from the north. The light is considered both more neutral than that from any other point of the compass and more consistant.

If you use southern light there is the possiblity of having a range of variation from red to yellow which have a dramatic effect on what you are seeing.

Another thing to consider is the surrounding colour. Lighting cabinets and colour rooms are almost always painted in a neutral grey colour. This ensures they eye is not unduly influenced by the surround. There are some excellent examples within the paint industry that show dramatically the effect background can have on visual perception.

So in summary best viewing conditions should be:

Standard north sky illumination or flourescent D65 artificial light

Light should be diffused

Sample should be viewed against a neutral matt grey background.

Works in industry it would be interesting to see ifthe same holds true for steel colour in swords.

[Kronos]

From my understanding I seem to recall that the human brain will autotune the percieved colour when compared with known samples that are so well known by all humans such as an orange or possibly a white sheet of paper. So theorhetically one could simply carry an Orange around everywhere they go and no matter what the light source (provided it had a multitude of different frequencies to give a proper variation instead of just red light for example) then you would have an accurate point of reference and you could tell the colour of anything held up against the said orange despite variable light conditions.

 

Now I wouldn't like to test comparing the colour of steel against an Orange but on that basis someone could produce two cards at each end of the colour of Nihonto or photographs of two opposing blades that were taken under D65 or a similar light source in a white/grey room and use these as reference points when inspecting blades. It sure beats the alternative of carrying a Tanto with you wherever you go

 

Barry, I would be most interested to see this article if you intended to make it available to those of us that are not members of the JSSUS.