What is it called - and why is it there ?

[Rog]

 

 

In the top image (#41) there is an insert shown in Kozuka hitsu ana (hole on left side)

adjacent to the left side of Nakago hitsu ana (blade hole) -

while there is no insert in Kogai hitsu ana (hole on right side).

(*my apologies if I've goofed up the terminology)

???

I'm curious as to what that inserted part is and why it was made and inserted.

 

Also, though my research I've come to believe that the face/front of this tsuba is actually the second photo shown. Even though it appears that the top photo shows more wear to the tsuba, seemingly indicating that that was the side facing the Tsuka more times than not.

 

Thanks for any and all info - and I hope this post is clear in content, if not please correct me!

Rog

[docliss]

Dear Rog

 

The soft metal insert that you describe in the kozuka hitsu-ana of your tsuba is called sekigane, and is intended to protect the soft metal of the kozuka from damage by the harder metal of the tsuba. It is my impression, from the outline of the other hitsu-ana, that this also originally contained sekigane, which has subsequently become detached and lost.

 

Kind regards, John L.

[sanjuro]

If its OK with you, lets take a small step backward here. In the first place, samurai did not spend a great deal of time with a naked blade in hand. Hence the greater wear does not usually occur on the tsuka face of the tsuba. The greatest area of wear on a tsuba is more likely to be on the saya side of the tsuba where the hand rested constantly. One area that sometimes shows greater wear or discolouration is the sector of the tsuba that would be to the upper left of the centre as it is viewed facing the wearer with the sword in the saya, worn in the obi. This where the thumb of the wearer would rest at all times, ready to push the sword a fraction forward prior to drawing it.

The insert you refer to would be to firstly prevent wear on the tsuba itself as the kozuka is resting in situ and would be drawn through the tsuba. Or otherwise to adjust the tsuba to a certain mounting so that the kozuka ana and seppadai aligns correctly with saya on one side and the tsuka on the other.

 

Basically you need to do a little (make that a lot) more reading as to how the sword was worn and mounted to understand this and other small but important details of wear and the use of various sekigane on a tsuba. This is not a simple subject at all and there are many factors to consider not the least of which would be the comparative age of the tsuba, and on what kind of blade it was mounted or may have been mounted. (katana, wakizashi etc.).

 

No criticism here, but this is such an elementary question that it indicates you really should be doing some basic research for your own sake, and this is possibly why you have not received an answer much sooner. :D

[Guido]

..., and is intended to protect the soft metal of the kozuka from damage by the harder metal of the tsuba.

That's what I heard often, too, but since we're looking at a soft metal Tsuba, I'm getting my doubts. Proper alignment, as Keith suggests, might be the more plausible answer.

 

BTW, I don't think this is a beginner's question at all, the topic deserves indeed some more serious study.

[drbvac]

On this and many other topics in Tosuga I will defer to Doctor John - hes the man

[docliss]

Brian, modesty precludes any comment! But with thanks, John L.

[Rog]

Well now, here comes the reason for my confusion and reason for asking - - -

web search definition, and other sources definitions = sekigane:

 

a) the small bits of soft metal added to the nakago ana to fit the tsuba to a sword

 

b) The sekigane was a very popular way in which to adorn the Tsuba.

The technique consisted of carving out designs and filling them up with gold color material.

Some of the designs were basic shapes.

In other cases the adornations took on the form of known figures such as flowers, animals, etc.

 

c) Soft metal plugs inserted in the KOZUKA and KOGAI apertures on iron plate tsuba. Sometimes used instead of the term KUCHIBENI for the plugs at the top and bottom of the NAKAGO ANA.

 

d) Ategane - A metal plug placed inthe Kozuka or Kogai-ana. Also refered to as Ume.

 

So with all this info and similarities/synonymous terminology why would one be confuzzzed....

 

Anyway - thanks to all for the info!

 

P.S.

Keith G. - - - Why would I want to do a lot more reading?

I came here and searched you out didn't I.....

But yes, a lot more study is in order as time permits.

[Guido]

On this and many other topics in Tosuga I will defer to Doctor John - hes the man

Brian, modesty precludes any comment! But with thanks, John L.

Mental note to myself: add name to my "because-he-says-so list" below my father but above the pope ...

[Pete Klein]

ROFLMAO!!! Thanks Guido!

[John A Stuart]

当金 ategane I had always believed was any metal in the hitsuana to make it 'appropriate' for the tsuba as used. This would be the wear guard slivers of metal on the inside to prevent wear, or the 埋金 umegane, a full plug where 埋 is 'filled up' not the plum. Whereas, 責金 sekigane or 口紅 kuchibeni ( I like this one, it refers to lipstick around the mouth) was the metal slivers for fitting the sword to the tsuba or visa versa only. John

[Henry Wilson]

BTW, I don't think this is a beginner's question at all, the topic deserves indeed some more serious study.

 

One of the KTK catalogs has an article about such inlays and the purpose of them. I think it is the 2010 edition and the article was written by Saulius V. Ploplys.

[drbvac]

C'mon Guido - below your Dad but surely well above the Pope

[John A Stuart]

2011. He only calls them inserts and they are added for artistic balance by his theory. John

[drbvac]

Well if study and further reading would help anyone on this forum this is a pretty good book on tsuba -

 

http://www.amazon.ca/Namban-Group-Japan ... 205&sr=1-1

[Soshin]

当金 ategane I had always believed was any metal in the hitsuana to make it 'appropriate' for the tsuba as used. This would be the wear guard slivers of metal on the inside to prevent wear, or the 埋金 umegane, a full plug where 埋 is 'filled up' not the plum. Whereas, 責金 sekigane or 口紅 kuchibeni ( I like this one, it refers to lipstick around the mouth) was the metal slivers for fitting the sword to the tsuba or visa versa only. John

 

Hi everyone,

 

I have a iron tsuba with a iron instert in the kozuka hitsu-ana that alters it's overall shape. Will post photos when I can. I think John is correct on the topic.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[sanjuro]

Well if study and further reading would help anyone on this forum this is a pretty good book on tsuba -

 

Nice if you like Namban I suppose........ I rather prefer tsuba that have been worked rather than cast. :D Yes I know a lot of tsuba buffs like this kind of work, so dont get upset. I'm a traditionalist and perhaps because I'm not an expert in the field I can be considered eccentric and/or just plain ignorant. None the less I think cast tsuba are obscene.

[Lorenzo]

I don't get what you mean. Are you saying that all nanban tsuba are cast?

[sanjuro]

Not all perhaps....... The extremely intricate ones all appear to be, and those that I have seen in hand (enough to disgust me) have no apparent evidence on them that the metal was forged or folded.

 

Lorenzo. I am not a person of note when it comes to tsuba, ergo my opinion is of no matter. I simply find the style generally repulsive and to my eye at least, uncouth and un Japanese. This opinion will probably get me ostricised and excommunicated in tsuba circles for all eternity. I can however live with that. :D

[Lorenzo]

Uh well ok, you was just throwing in a random opinion; I suppose it is your right to do so

 

Just for info; the tsuba on the OP is inspired to Nishigaki Kanshiro:

 

[Curran]

Lorenzo,

 

Yes, I told him this already via PM.

His is either a late Edo copy. Let us say "Kodai Higo", or it is a fake.

It has none of the feel of the originals, which a very advanced collector was kind enough to loan me a half dozen of these Kanshiro softmetal ones for a while.

I prefer to think it is Kodai Higo, but patina looks jacked up. Correct repair of a kodai Higo would be expensive and perhaps foolish in this case.

 

but it doesn't really go with the koshirae this guy has for it.

It looks sort of a frankenstein. Probably a money pit to repair a koshirae that is already not much to look at.

If he wants a koshirae for the nice sword it has, he probably should learn the process of having a decent one built.

[Pete Klein]

I have found additions to older Higo tsuba to be not uncommon. My impression is that they could be added to the seppa dai for protection of the back of the kogai/kozuka, to replace steel which was removed to allow placement of kogai/kozuka and not required on a later mount, or to re-fit tsuba to a larger saya so there was no gap. Here are some examples from the Higo Kinko Taikan and the last one from Sasano:

 

 

 

 

 

[drbvac]

Here is a tsuba by Kinai of Echizen that has an insert.

 

 

 

It is not really large - the tsuba is C18 as indicated by a very credible board member.

 

PS "

 

" I'm a traditionalist and perhaps because I'm not an expert in the field I can be considered eccentric and/or just plain ignorant. None the less I think cast tsuba are obscene." Sanjuro

 

Not to embarass a respected friend and fellow professional I trust when you looked at the book on Namban you noted the authors name. Reminds me of when a newbie I wanted to know who Clive Sinclaire was.

[sanjuro]

I trust when you looked at the book on Namban you noted the authors name.

 

As a matter of fact I did. So what? I fail to see why that or the fact that he is a member of this board and your bosom buddy, is supposed to modify my opinion of Namban tsuba in some way???????? My statement of a purely personal view concerning Namban tsuba casts no negative shadow nor makes criticism concerning John personally, his literary effort or his knowledge of his chosen subject. Lighten up!

[drbvac]

You have misunderstood my intention by pointing out the author, who I do consider a friend although we have never met and live 5000 miles apart. I care not of your personal opinion of the Namban or any other piece of art - I think some modern paintings are disgusting. To each his own.

 

The pointing out the author I was relating to the original post where this gentleman had presented an opinion as to the function of the inserts in the tsuba. You responded with your opinion related to wear of the sword and samauri practice when using same and made a comment about more reading being required.

 

I then stated as my opinion that I would probably listen to the words of a published author with a Masters of Arts degree related to tsuba as to the use of the inserts which yourself and another board member thought very funny.

 

To learn the actual truth of anything is related to evidence based presentations of facts - not the personal opinions of critics. I would just as soon not have to wade through any "personal"opinions on any forum as they distract from helpful discussion. If you want personal opinions and "lighter banter" please put it in Izakaya.

[Ford Hallam]

I have some opinions.....but I haven't written a book or got any degrees in the arts of tsuba though

 

I do have to agree with Brian that expressions of personal preferences in terms of what one might appreciate are really somewhat irrelevant in these sorts of discussions.

 

As regards this admission though;

Reminds me of when a newbie I wanted to know who Clive Sinclaire was.

 

I trust you've been duly advised to treat with caution and/or if encountered to ply with copious amounts of the good stuff :lol: ...as it goes the same would apply to me

 

I'd love to read the article that was published in the NTK catalogue....If any kind soul would be good enough to scan in a copy for me. I sense an opportunity to write a 'review'

[John A Stuart]

I'd do that for you Ford. I believe in free knowledge, but, there are members of the KTK on the board to whom I will defer as to the correctness of doing so in this case. If no one comes forth I will photo and send as a PM. John

[Brian]

As a matter of fact I did. So what? I fail to see why that or the fact that he is a member of this board and your bosom buddy, is supposed to modify my opinion of Namban tsuba in some way???????? My statement of a purely personal view concerning Namban tsuba casts no negative shadow nor makes criticism concerning John personally, his literary effort or his knowledge of his chosen subject. Lighten up!

Keith,

While your intention may be different, and you are certainly entitled to your opinion, I would caution you to be careful of how you phrase it, as it can come across quite rude to people who don't know otherwise. There are better ways to phrase things.

 

Brian

[Ford Hallam]

I'd do that for you Ford. I believe in free knowledge, but, there are members of the KTK on the board to whom I will defer as to the correctness of doing so in this case. If no one comes forth I will photo and send as a PM. John

 

Much appreciated John thanks.

[Jean]

http://www.artswords.com/akasaka3.htm

http://www.artswords.com/Kiyosukashi2.htm

 

http://www.artswords.com/owaritsuba.htm

 

 

Some examples

[Guido]

This thread is getting more and more bizarre.

 

It started with the o/p asking a legitimate question about Ategane. John L. answers by a) using a kind of generic term for inserts (yes, I knew that even before John S. posted), and b) repeating a theory that is floating around for years, but never has been confirmed (Wakayama, who goes into great detail about these things in the supplement [i.e. vol. 8] of his “Tōsō Kodōgu Kōza”, doesn’t mention it at all).

 

Leaving his tone aside, Keith makes a valid point - that Ategane might have been simply done for proper alignment / a “finished” look; this makes sense to me, because a) the Tsuba being discussed here is made of soft metal to begin with, and b) if properly mounted, a Kozuka shouldn’t come into contact with the Tsuba anyhow.

 

In one of my rare bouts of diplomacy (that’ll teach me!) I don’t dwell on terminology and instead suggest that the topic needs further study – only to be told by Brian to shut up because “John’s the man” and knows best. Well, excuse me for replying in a slightly sarcastic way to this outrageous statement!

 

Further attempts at boosting John’s authority by pointing out that he wrote a book (that has nothing to do with the topic being discussed) are pretty lame. I don’t like Namban Tsuba either, but of course this doesn’t take away anything from his academic achievements in this field. Fuzzy terminology and self-importance do.

 

Can we now leave the personal alliances and/or resentments behind and concentrate on the original question? Like: if Atagane were the preferred way of providing a buffer between Tsuba and Kozuka, why don’t we see them more often? Why are most Kozuka not scratched up even if mounted without them? Does Shakudō really do significantly less damage than iron if rubbed against a Kozuka?

 

I looked at a couple of Koshirae in my collection, and there wasn’t a single case of the back of the Kozuka coming in contact with the Tsuba while being pulled out. The sides of the Kozuka, OTOH, could easily rub against the Hitsu-ana if it is only slightly twisted during removal, yet we never see inserts at those parts of the Ana.

 

I’m prepared to stand corrected, but at least hope in a scientific way when/if it happens.