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Newbie Looking for First Katana

Joeyg
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Joeyg Newbie

Joeyg

Posted
Posted

Hi Everyone,

 

I’m a newbie on the forum and I’m in the market for my first Japanese Katana, I’ve been doing research on the internet but there seem to be mounts and mounts of information of the history of katana swords and the art of creating one.

My price range is in the 5,000- 10,000 us dollars, I’m looking for something with history attached to the sword pre 1800 A.D, with paperwork (NBTHK Tokubetsu Hozon Paper) a complete unit. katana with the koshirae.

 

Due to my fortunate career I have the luxury of traveling to different parts of the world to look and examine the sword if I feel it’s the unit I am interested in.. Understanding the export laws in Japan spending 2 week there for the export certificate isn’t a problem.

 

So basically I’m looking for the expertise of the forum to give me direction and hopefully a recommended dealer I can contact.

Thks

runagmc Mentor

runagmc

Posted
Posted

It shouldn't be difficult to find something in that price range that meets your criteria, however, most people on this forum would probably recommend that you keep studying until you're able to answer your own questions. If you know what you want (blade length, style of blade and mount, era, school, smith ect.) and you feel you're ready to buy, I would just start seaching the web since most dealers have websites displaying their merchandise. This way you can learn while you look for something that you like. If you go to the Links icon at the very top of this message board and then go to where it says commercial there are many dealers websites to see.

Surfson Grand Master

Surfson

Posted
Posted

A katana in full mounts and NBTHK tokubetsu hozon papers generally can't be found in the price range you name. You will have more luck finding a nice fully mounted blade with hozon papers however.

Brian

Brian

Posted
Posted

I wouldn't think you would need to travel overseas. Make it to one of the USA sword shows (assuming you are in the US?) with $10K in your pocket, and I am pretty sure you will find what you are looking for.

 

Brian

Ruben Collaborator

Ruben

Posted
Posted

Hi Joeyg,

 

I feel happy for you, thats a pretty good budget :D .

Taste and adjucation may change over time, so better to relax and wait for "your sword" to come.

For me as beginner it was like this, that after few years I slowly understood for my self what is a good shape and feel to a sword. The good sugata is one very important aspect of a beautiful sword, the rest you have to learn from adjucatetd people, books and objects of course.

I choosed my first sword just from the shape and color of the steel lol :freak:.

I have to say I´am a "nakago- fetishist", would never buy somthin with a non perfect shaped nakago lol.

As the buget was very low, it wasn´t a big mistake.

But after many years (I am still young, so its better to say few years), I learned to appreciate it and now I am very very happy with it. It is a bizen katana and the hamon is in nioi, hada is very tight and appears near to muji. I had a hard time to learn any thing from it, if a ever learned somthing. :roll:

 

http://www.siseido.net/

 

Regards

 

Ruben

Curran Grand Master

Curran

Posted
Posted

As an experiment, I tried to find a Tokubetsu Hozon sword with koshirae that was without sizable flaw in either the blade or koshirae.

______I looked at 30 swords in Japan with Tokubetsu Hozon = True

______If True, then there was always a flaw in the blade, the length of the blade (sold as katana, but long wakizashi length...), or expensive flaws in the koshirae.

 

Unless you negotiate strongly, it is unlikely now that you will find a Tokubetsu Hozon blade with real koshirae that is < $10,000 in Japan.

There are a few that are borderline. There are some good Hozon swords with koshirae for < $10,000.

 

Price of Tokubetsu Hozon sword is largely because Japanese Yen is +50% in value the past decade. Japanese Yen up = US dollar down.

 

I agree with Brian that probably San Fran (August) or Tampa (February) Sword Show are best place to buy a Japanese sword.... and take a vacation too.

Same sword in USA is about 25% to 35% discount to near identical sword in Japan.

But new collectors often think they must by sword from Japan.

Jean

Jean

Posted
Posted

Curran is obviously right, as usual, even for us in Europe with the fall of €, the market is in the USA. The ¥ is out priced and Japanese sword market is going to suffer from it :cry:

estcrh Veteran

estcrh

Posted
Posted
Hi Everyone,

 

I’m a newbie on the forum and I’m in the market for my first Japanese Katana, I’ve been doing research on the internet but there seem to be mounts and mounts of information of the history of katana swords and the art of creating one.

My price range is in the 5,000- 10,000 us dollars, I’m looking for something with history attached to the sword pre 1800 A.D, with paperwork (NBTHK Tokubetsu Hozon Paper) a complete unit. katana with the koshirae.

 

Joe, have you thought about posting a wanted add in the forum wanted/for sale section? I would suggest that if you eventually find a potential candidate that you post some images and the description on the forum so that the forum members can rip it to shreds :glee: ..if it passed through the gauntlet you can be fairly sure you are getting a good sword for the money.
Joeyg Newbie

Joeyg

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Thank you very much guys, all your comments have shown that there is a great deal of knowledge and quality advise on the forum.

 

I'm actually located in Toronto Canada:

 

What would you say the 3 most important characteristics of a sword would be when buying? I realize that this question is a bit grey but I'm looking for advice for my purchase.

lbkmd43 Enthusiast

lbkmd43

Posted
Posted

JOEY G YOU ARE IN LUCK THERE IS A GREAT SWORDSHOW IN TAMPA FLORIDA fEB 10-12 THE SHOW IS IN THE AIRPORT SO YOU DONT HAVE TO TRAVEL AROUND ITS IN THE AIRPORT MARRIOTT SO FLY DOWN FOR THE WEEKEND AND SEE A GREAT SHOW

L KANAREK MD

runagmc Mentor

runagmc

Posted
Posted

I agree that you would be able to get a better quality item if you went with something papered to Hozon, for your budget. Just because a sword only has Hozon papers doesn't mean that's the best paper it can receive. Papers can't neccesarily be seen as the final word on a swords quality or collectability. With the NBTHK, you have to re-submit the same sword to get the next level of papers. So, for a sword to get Juyo papers, it has to go through Hozon and Tokubetsu Hozon shinsa first... which I've always thought was kinda ridiculous. I think they should give the sword the highest paper possible at the first submission, and just charge a price according to the level of paper... so the higher the paper the more it would cost. Then collectors would know that what ever paper an item has is the highest it can go at shinsa, and relative to the quality and collectability of the sword. Anyway... enough rambling. You've been given some good advice to get you started. Mainly, don't be in a rush. Patience will pay off in the long run. :)

Guido Grand Master

Guido

Posted
Posted
So, for a sword to get Juyo papers, it has to go through Hozon and Tokubetsu Hozon shinsa first... which I've always thought was kinda ridiculous.
Not so. You can submit a sword without papers for both Hozon and Tokubetsu Hozon at the same time. To apply for Jûyô, only a previous Hozon paper is required.
runagmc Mentor

runagmc

Posted
Posted

Thanks for the correction. But an item still has to have Hozon papers before it can get Toku Hozon ones, right? It just doesn't have to have Toku Hozon before Juyo... and, to get to Tokubetsu Juyo it would have to pass Hozon and Juyo shinsa first. It still seems like it would make more sense to give an item the paper that coincided with it's importance of preservation upon the first submition... but mabey there's a good reason for the way they do it. :dunno:

cabowen Grand Master

cabowen

Posted
Posted

Different people do the upper level shinsa. The lower shinsa weed things out and make sure the upper level teams don't have to waste their time on lower level items.

 

It also brings in more revenue.

Curran Grand Master

Curran

Posted
Posted

Adam L.

 

Guido strikes first. See:

http://www.bushidojapaneseswords.com/nbthkshinsa.htm

Bottom of page.

 

Guido:

If you have something with old green papers, you can submit to Tokubetsu Hozon directly.... No?

I have a tsuba with old green papers that probably deserves Toku Hozon, and would like to confirm I can submit it directly to TH if Customs doesn't stop it again.

 

________________________________________

 

Toronto Newbie:

As everyone said, talk to Barry Hennick. Also maybe talk to Darcy too, if he has the time.

Between those two, you should be very well advised.

Curran Grand Master

Curran

Posted
Posted

Guido,

 

Thanks. I wasn't sure.

It is very rare that I would do this given how Yen/USD adjusted expense of shinsa has climbed.

 

With fittings more so than swords, is usually Hozon or Juyo.

Toku Hozon for fittings is usually just extravagance, but some pieces deserve the distinction and the jump from Tokubetsu Kicho papers is within financial sanity.

Jamie Experienced

Jamie

Posted
Posted

Joey, you have a sufficient budget, but you might consider studying a bit and deciding what school you favor most.

Also look at many sites, and blades and learn for yourself what each piece is worth so you can make an educated purchase decision. You will find some good honest deals here as well.

 

Either way good luck.

Jean

Jean

Posted
Posted

Good one Reinhard, my friend, you are entering competition with Guido :laughabove:

 

Just the time of posting and the picture has been suppressed :cry: :cry:

Brian

Brian

Posted
Posted

Yep...the almighty censor strikes again (me)

Valid point...but lest we start speaking by means of witty images here...let's keep it textual.

 

Brian

This thread is quite old. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one, unless your post is really relevant and adds to the topic..

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