A few unusual items.

[estcrh]

I ran into a couple of items that I will post pictures of, if anyone has any other unusual weapons, armor etc feel free to add them.

 

The first is this wooden weapon, it has a kagi (hook) like a jutte and is 30 inches long with an octagon shaft, the kagi and the wrappings in front and behind it remind me of some yari fittings.

[Bugyotsuji]

Eric, does any of that look new to you? It's quite unusual, but hard to tell from photos. Do you think it has been made up, or does it all look original to you? (I ask because there are many fakes doing the rounds at present, and we have to be especially careful with Jutte/Jitte.)

 

It would certainly deflect or stop a roaming blade. The shaft looks like aka-gashi, red Japanese oak. The octagon could be quite painful upon contact with someone's skull.

[IanB]

Eric, Looks like what you have there is a jute made from a yari shaft. It clearly has the original kabura maki and a hadome. Perhaps it was used by a village headman who couldn't afford a real jute but needed one for his badge of office.

Ian Bottomley

[estcrh]

Piers and Ian, your seeing the baton after being oiled, is looks quite old to me and I have seen a few other wooden weapons of this type. As for being made from recycled materials I have read the the shafts of broken yari and naginata were made into various staff weapons such a bo, jo and hanbo. Here is another picture of a similar wooden baton, I was thinking that this type of weapon may have been a police/security type weapon very much like the modern police baton. Another recycled item was old yumi (bows), I have seen many made into whips, seemingly for horses.

 

[estcrh]

These two weapons are 9 and 10 inches long, they fit perfectly in the hand, the ends are formed to hang on a belt or rope etc for easy access, they have the look of old items but I just liked the design. The spike/dirk has a square shaft which leaves a nasty wound, I have read that on 20th century trench knives this type of shaft was banned by convention as being to brutal.

 

 

 

[estcrh]

This kabuto is constructed with heavy wire covered by leather on top and a cloth lining, the unusually shaped shikoro (neck guard) is cloth covered with kusari (chain armor), I have never seen another kabuto that used this wire construction.

 

[IanB]

Eric, Never seen anything like your 'hook / spike' items. The hook bits look a bit sharp for hanging on your belt - could they have been some form of tool? The one with the spike may have fitted into a wooden handle whereas the other has an integral one. As for the helmet - what a fabulous item. I suspect it may have been originally covered by something else. The quality of the sewing and the materials of the shikoro are far higher than the present outer cover. Do you thing it might have had a padded cloth cover originally? I have a mail hood with a little leather peak attached - but interestingly with sections of deer antler fastened over the temples. It also has a hemp cord, covered with leather, that fits into the nape of the neck to hold it on. Rather an odd arrangement but it presumably worked. I have seen old bows made into riding whips and once into a walking stick. I agree that the spirally lacquered truncheon seems to have been made from a spear shaft. You cannot beat re-cycling.

Ian Bottomley

[John A Stuart]

Could the kabuto(?) be covered with a bowl similar to an arming cap in duplex helmets of medieval helmets? I have noticed that Japanese maile is butted, which is OK for the slashing defence, but, totally insufficient for piercing attack. I saw some experiments with arrows against butted and riveted maile. There was a significant difference in effectiveness. I also believe the spike are tools with the rectangular spikey bit for a wooden handle. As an engineer I use similar tools. John

[IanB]

John, You may be correct about the covering of the helmet. I have however seen a fabric covered one, I think in the Watanabe Collection in Tottori. You are right about butted mail - it just opens up if pierced. The Japanese did make riveted mail but it is as rare as hen's teeth (see earlier posts). However, since Japanese mail is always sewn onto a backing, it doesn't open up in the way that un-backed butted mail does.

Ian B.

[Bugyotsuji]

Just going back to Jutte in general for a second. Anyone going out to pick one up please be very careful. Talking with a friend who spends a lot of time at the dealer auctions and he warned me that 29 out of 30 Jutte appearing in the marketplace in Japan today are fake. He said they are so good that he has lost confidence in being able to tell any more.

 

Oh, and I have also seen similar walking sticks that he has made out of broken Shigeto bows, with a deerskin grip!

[Peter Bleed]

Eric,

 

Many issues in this topic and some interesting items. To deal with only one issue, I strongly suspect that the "hooked times" are lathe chisels used for making bowls.

 

Peter

[estcrh]

  John A Stuart said:

Could the kabuto(?) be covered with a bowl similar to an arming cap in duplex helmets of medieval helmets? I have noticed that Japanese maile is butted, which is OK for the slashing defence, but, totally insufficient for piercing attack. I saw some experiments with arrows against butted and riveted maile. There was a significant difference in effectiveness. I also believe the spike are tools with the rectangular spikey bit for a wooden handle. As an engineer I use similar tools. John

John, since I have been able to examine it carefully I can tell you that the kabuto is constructed entirely from a thick wire framework, a few very thick main wires with a cross lacing of thinner wires, extremely stout, it could easily repel a good blow to the head in fact I think I could stand on it with no bending.

 

As for the Japanese mail, as Ian noted the Japanese did have access to riveted mail at some point in the past but they also had some alternatives to butted mail, I recently found one panel of a kusazuri which had double butted mail, and then there was 6 in 1 twisted mail which is very thick and looks pierce resistant.

 

Then there were the auxiliary armors which would be worn under or over the traditional armor, these shirts, pants, coats, vests, belts etc could be lined or covered with a variety of armors to increase the protection of individual areas of the body as desired.

 

Many of the more advanced kusari and auxiliary armors are not pictured in books as there are just not many images of these items available.

Riveted kusari

 

6 in 1 twisted link kusari

 

Double butted kusari.

[estcrh]

  Bugyotsuji said:

Just going back to Jutte in general for a second. Anyone going out to pick one up please be very careful. Talking with a friend who spends a lot of time at the dealer auctions and he warned me that 29 out of 30 Jutte appearing in the marketplace in Japan today are fake. He said they are so good that he has lost confidence in being able to tell any more.

 

Oh, and I have also seen similar walking sticks that he has made out of broken Shigeto bows, with a deerskin grip!

Piers, you are quite right, jutte are being replicated in a way that is quite remarkable sometimes, while many of the fake ones are just garish and have no signs of use or age the good ones are more subdued and replicate authentic ones quite well. I have seen bows and horse whips with a deer skin grip being sold recently but they are not being made to look old and are not hard to spot.

 

Here are two jutte that I posted on the forum already that are good replicas, they sold for a lot of money, more than some plain but authentic ones.

[estcrh]

  Peter Bleed said:

Eric,

 

Many issues in this topic and some interesting items. To deal with only one issue, I strongly suspect that the "hooked times" are lathe chisels used for making bowls.

 

Peter

Peter, John and Ian mentioned "tool" also, I was looking at the other end of them for tool possibilities but did not think about the little hook as the tool and the other end as the handle, the spiked one reminded me of the square dirk type hachiwari blade but it is quite possible that the hook is some type of scraper.

[estcrh]

On the subject of tools, I saw these tools labeled as "lacquer collection tools", I have never thought about how the lacquer was collected or the tools need, I have no idea if these tools are accurate but they are the only ones of this type I have seen.

 

 

[Bugyotsuji]

Eric, superb kote there and nice chain photos.

[estcrh]

Another unusual weapon mentioned by Serge Mol as an "aribo", an octagon forged iron cane, this one fits the description although I can not find another image any were, it has a small hole with a copper insert and it has a taper, 35.5 inches long and quite heavy, you would not have wanted to wreck your sword on this. An Edo period police or security weapon presumably.

 

[estcrh]

Another rarely pictured weapon, the kanamuchi or kanemuchi, a long tapered forged iron whip, this one is 39 inches long. These are mentioned by Serge Mol and Don Cunningham, another police type weapon.

[Bugyotsuji]

Wow, you have certainly found some unusual items Eric.

 

In the meantime, here is something possibly related to the thread, by a stretch of the imagination... (Length, 16.3cm, a bit longer than a ballpoint pen.)

[cabowen]

That would be deadly on a minka....

[Bugyotsuji]

  cabowen said:

That would be deadly on a minka....

 

This came out of a house/kura sale so there is no direct proof but the sensible answer is an iron needle for making tatami mats.

 

There is a suggested secondary usage for "Za hiss-satsu"...

Sqwutch, below the base of the skull...

[John A Stuart]

I think 畳針 tatamihari is very likely, a bodkin for piercing the spinal cord need not have an eye. Reindeer herders have been known to dispatch unwary animals in this fashion. John

[cabowen]

I have seen similar used to "sew" the thatch to the roofs of minka. Tatami were not usually homemade....

[John A Stuart]

Thatch is very thick, I guess you could use one like that. How about this style? John

[cabowen]

In Japan it is attached in small bundles......

[Bugyotsuji]

That one could well be for thatching. Interesting idea. I have some similar needles but of much finer quality which definitely are Tatami needles, and a bone needle with eye which was described as for making (tawara) kome-dawara rice bales.

[estcrh]

Piers, I have seen one other like that for sale, the seller suggested it my have been used on fishing nets. Here is something similar, there is a set of them in a bamboo carrying case.

 

[estcrh]

This is a tsurumaki, it is a woven bow string holder, they are not to common but this one is unusual in that is has a leather strap so the the tsurumaki can be tied to something such as a belt. I have never seen one of these close up.

 

 

 

 

[Bugyotsuji]

The soft leather strap is an extra bonus, Eric. Well done.

 

They became largely symbolic, long after bows and arrows went out of circulation. (Except for those practising 'kyudo'.) We were all told we had to have one of these as a standard feature of one's armour. I was handed one, but later found another older tsurumaki, so handed the 'free' one back. I have now been wearing it for four or five years; it sort of bounces against the tachi saya.

[estcrh]

An unusual ishizuki, anyone have any idea what is is used for, it is the first signed one I have seen.