you should see this - (fraudulent auctions)

[sencho]

he's got one of Mike Yamaguchi's pictures up there... I'll give him a shout and let him know...

 

...done... just zapped an email to Mike and let him know. Hopefully he will contact ebay... the guy uses some of Mike's pictures from his ebay auctions.... bastard!

[Stever]

Only the person whose online photos have been stolen can complain about them being stolen

 

That's ridiculous! The issue here isn't just copyright/intellectual property, it's listing items that are not in the sellers possession! I guess eBay doesn't see that as a problem!?

 

Got a response from Usagiya, who said the swords are still in their possession. Hopefully they contact eBay about it.

[Stephen]

is more worried about profit than stopping fraud. It may be time for me to boycott Ebay buying and selling. I have let them know that with each fraud sold I will be contacting winning bidder to let them know that Ebay was informed of said fraud and should be held responsible for that money lost to the baggers.

[Stephen]

STEAMING ...heres his email address...just wondering if hes from Bangkok...or does ebay check that out also when you sign up.

nakamura.kimura@hotmail.com

[Grey Doffin]

Ebay's president is Bill Cobb. He can be reached at:

billcobb@ebay.com

Grey

[Brian]

This guy now has about 13 Nihonto related items going...all high end stuff.

He needs to be stopped soon.

I think eBay's policy refers to mass production items such as cameras and equipment where people use a standard factory image for their sale.

But this does not work with one of a kind items where, if there is another one listed, it MUST be fraud.

http://stores.ebay.com/kitsunomonoka

If he had all of these, he would be a wealthy man.

Someone with an expendable eBay account...bid $100,000 on each item to make sure no-one else can get fooled..lol. (Just kidding. I certainly wouldn't encourage such foolhardy and irresponsible behavior )

 

Chaos

[Stephen]

American Chamber of Commerce

in Thailand

 

American Chamber of Commerce

Kian Gwan Building, 7th Floor

140 Wireless Road, Bangkok. 10330

Tel: +66-2 251-9266/7; 651-4473

Fax: +66-2 651-4472; 651-4474

Email: amcham@samart.co.th

 

and the

 

The Thai Chamber of Commerce

150 Rajbopit Road, Bangkok. 10200

P.O.Box 2-146

Tel: +66-2 622-1860 to 76

Fax: +66-2 225-3372

Email: tcc@tcc.or.th

 

this letter: still no word yet.

 

Dear Sirs

 

I have been trying to find a way to stop a Ebay seller from selling items they say come from Bangkok,

 

Ebay sellers list of Kitsunomonoka

http://search.ebay.com/_Asian-Antiques_ ... sunomonoka

 

shows swords that are not his, the one marked Gassan is from this sale....

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/Gassan-Sadayoshi-Ka ... dZViewItem

 

the other swords are photos stolen from the web site of two Sisters in Japan

http://www.ksky.ne.jp/~sumie99/

plus other old Ebay auctions and web sites. It looks like he may also be selling DVD's that are pirate dvds

 

from what two letters I got from the seller his email address is nakamura.kimura@hotmail.com and in his auctions it states he is from Promprab, Bangkok, Thailand

 

Please turn this over to local police or DA to catch this guy, it gives the beautiful city of Bangkok and the wonderful country of Thailand a bad name and balck eye.

 

Best Regards, Stephen

 

Stephen Christensen

Budo-to Ya

Des Moines IA 50316

[Stephen]

This is what ebay has sent me so far, i wonder how the Kashima sisters would translate this or have a lawyer do it and cost them a pretty penny.

 

Dear Stephen,

 

If you believe that a listing or item posted on eBay infringes your

intellectual property rights, the Verified Rights Owner's (VeRO) Program

may be able to assist you.

 

As you may know, eBay does not buy or sell any items. We act only as a

venue that helps buyers and sellers to do so. We neither see nor inspect

any items that are offered for sale on eBay. However, we recognize that

some posted items may infringe certain intellectual property rights. For

this reason, we have created the VeRO Program, which enables

intellectual property rights owners to identify and request the removal

of allegedly infringing listings.

 

The many benefits of participating in VeRO include:

 

- Direct access to a support team dedicated to addressing rights owners'

requests and processing Notices of Claimed Infringement (NOCIs)

- The ability to request the removal of listings that infringe your

intellectual property rights by using the NOCI form

- The ability to request detailed contact information for sellers who

post listings that may infringe your intellectual property rights

 

How to File a NOCI Report

The first time you file a NOCI, you will need to download, complete, and

submit the document to eBay by fax. If you need to submit subsequent

NOCIs after your initial fax has been processed, you will be able to do

so online.

 

***Note***

To view and print the NOCI, you need to have Adobe Acrobat Reader

installed on your computer. If you don't already have the program, you

can download Acrobat Reader for free from Adobe's Web site. To do so, go

to :

 

http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html

 

To download a copy of the NOCI form, go to:

 

http://pages.ebay.com/help/community/NOCI1.pdf

 

Please be sure to complete all sections of the form, sign, and fax the

NOCI to:

 

eBay Inc.

ATTN: VeRO

(408) 516-8811

 

For more information about the VeRO Program, please visit:

 

http://pages.ebay.com/help/confidence/v ... owner.html

 

If you have any additional questions, feel free to contact us at the

following email address:

 

vero@ebay.com.

 

The VeRO program procedures are intended to substantially comply with

the requirements of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, 17 U.S.C.,

Section 512. To read the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, go to:

 

http://www.qlinks.net/comdocs/uscopyright.htm

 

Thank you for using eBay for your online trading needs.

 

Sincerely,

Rusel

 

eBay Customer Support

 

 

and another letter much like what Grey recived.

 

 

Dear Stephen,

 

Thank you for writing eBay in regard to Image and Text Theft.

 

To begin, I would like to extend my personal apologies for being unable

to address your concerns at the time of your initial report.

Unfortunately, we have been experiencing an unusual influx in volume

with reports of this nature.

 

I have reviewed the information that you provided regarding the use of

images in this members listings, but at this point find that I do not

have enough evidence to show that the member has violated any eBay

rules.

 

Regrettably, we will only be able to take action if the owner of the

images write to us. In some instances, sellers may have obtained

permission to use the material. Therefore, we often cannot remove

listings based on the representations of third parties whose credentials

we cannot verify.

 

We do understand the potential for further issues in this type of

situation. That is why, if you feel strongly about this issue, we

recommend that you contact the owner of the images, and recommend that

they contact us directly. Once we hear from them, we will take

appropriate action.

 

If you would like to review our guidelines concerning this issue, please

visit:

 

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/ver ... theft.html

 

It is my pleasure to assist you. Thank you for choosing eBay.

 

Sincerely,

Hayward

 

eBay Customer Support

 

Maybe the best way to shut him down is to place a high bid of 100,000, any one care to help me out with a bid of 99,900 so it will show my high bid????

[Brian]

When you reply..make sure you emphasize that this is not about intellectual copyright..it is about fraud, and selling items that he does not intend to supply. Re-state that this is not about stolen pictures...the seller does not own, posess or have access to the items he is selling.

Ask SteveR to forward you the reply from the sisters that they still posess the sword, and also from anyone else whose pics he is using.

 

I liked the idea of telling any winning bidders that you did contact eBay about the fraud, but they were unwilling to do anything about it.

 

eBay needs to know these are one of a kind items, and there cannot be another one out there.

 

Keep us updated.

 

Regards,

Brian

[Stephen]

leaves me powerless....i have shown them the Kashima sisters site stating that the photos are stolen and that they tried contacting ebay without any luck...ive had it with any more contact ebay, Now is the time for auction...has anyone found where the Kabutos images are from...i cant bid on them with out knowing where there stolen from.

[Guido]

If we tell eBay that it says "Sanmei Trading Co., Ltd. all rights reserved" on the pic of the Daishô, they would reply that Tokugawa Art in Nagoya may have given the "seller" permission to use the photo? I'm getting dizzy from all this legal nonsense ...

[Stephen]

its time for other action !!!

[Marius]

its time for other action !!!

 

Anything specific in mind? It seems we cannot contact the bidders, can we? Maybe we should bid these auctions up to absurd levels (say $100,000), then simply decline to pay and get a negative feedback, but at least we would have the chance to flood this criminal with our negative feedback?

 

We could arrange it so that each one of us would take one auction, so each one of us earns only one negative feedback...

 

eBay sticks to its policy of not policing (pun not intended) - this is quite logical from their point of view but it leaves those poor bidders to themselves...

 

I don't know, what do you think?

 

Best regards

[Brian]

Don't risk it from your eBay account!

I have heard rumors of some people having "expendable" eBay accounts for this kind of thing...but if you choose to go that route, do not give eBay a reason to ban you..and for goodness sakes..don't advertise what you did here on the forum or even suggest that it was orchestrated here. We don't encourage that sort of thing, being a responsible and legitimate educational venue

 

Brian

[Justin]

Bring back Nihonto Auctions I say!

 

I made a decision some time ago to not buy swords, fittings or armour from eBay again (no matter how inticing something appears). It's just too risky (unless you know the seller).

 

I think it's far better to save a bit more money and buy a quality item from someone on this board or a reputable dealer.

 

Regards

Justin

[Marius]

Don't risk it from your eBay account!

I have heard rumors of some people having "expendable" eBay accounts for this kind of thing...but if you choose to go that route, do not give eBay a reason to ban you..and for goodness sakes..don't advertise what you did here on the forum or even suggest that it was orchestrated here. We don't encourage that sort of thing, being a responsible and legitimate educational venue

 

Brian

 

Brian,

 

your advice is good. I will comply even though it is hard to accept that you cannot do anything about this criminal activity.

 

Best regards

[Stever]

Considering sending this to Mr. Cobb at eBay. Thoughts?

 

Hello Mr. Cobb,

 

I'm writing to you today in order to bring your attention to a travesty that is currently taking place on eBay. There is a seller who has listed a number of antique Japanese swords for sale that are known not to be in their possession. The pictures and descriptions have all been taken from the website of a well known dealer in Japanese swords located in Japan. The items in question are unique, one-of-a-kind items, several of which are still in the Japanese dealer's possession, so it is impossible that the eBay seller could also have these items. Several concerned collectors and the owners of the website in question have attempted to contact eBay's customer service to have this problem dealt with but to no avail. I am hoping that you may be inclined to help, as there are several thousands of dollars in play, affecting many different bidders.

 

Here is a link to the listings in question:

http://antiques.search.ebay.com/_Asian- ... sunomonoka

 

And here is a link to the Japanese dealer's website (please note the "News" link on the page):

http://www.ksky.ne.jp/~sumie99/

 

Finally, here are the links to the dealer's pages from which the photos were stolen:

http://www.ksky.ne.jp/~sumie99/sword10.html

http://www.ksky.ne.jp/~sumie99/sword27.html

http://www.ksky.ne.jp/~sumie99/sword18.html

http://www.ksky.ne.jp/~sumie99/sword35.html

http://www.ksky.ne.jp/~sumie99/sword11.html

http://www.ksky.ne.jp/~sumie99/sword37.html

http://www.ksky.ne.jp/~sumie99/sword31.html

http://www.ksky.ne.jp/~sumie99/sword45.html

http://www.ksky.ne.jp/~sumie99/sword45.html

 

 

As serious as this particular occurence is, it also draws attention to the overwhelming prevalence of borderline fraudulent listings of Japanese swords. There are frequent repeat issues with intellectual property and copyright infringement, as well as an enormous number of badly made reproduction items being sold as the real Japanese swords. In some cases, potential bidders are being encouraged to actually use these cheaply made reproductions for cutting practice, potentially endangering the lives of themselves and others, not to mention the inherent deceit involved on the part of the sellers. Here's a link that will give you an idea of the magnitude of the issue (I'm not claiming that 100% of these are not real Japanese swords, but it would be safe to say the percentage is extremely low. Please note the overuse of terms such as "rare", "old", "WWII", and "antique" on items that are anything but):

http://search.ebay.com/Japan-Japanese-s ... nesearchZ1

 

I suppose you could sit back and say "buyer beware", but you won't be getting my business anymore if you do.

 

Thank you for your attention to this matter.

Sincerely,

Steve Rowe

[Marius]

Considering sending this to Mr. Cobb at eBay. Thoughts?

 

Well, good idea. What about another - describing the story and sending it to the press.

 

Best regards

[Stephen]

Good job you might want to add the link for Togugawa art listing under Katana sale Dai Sho.

 

I myself have taken this route...and in no way was my decision related to NMB in anyway and such forum should not be held responsible for my attempt to disclose the fraud.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... &rd=1&rd=1

[Brian]

Steve,

I say go for it. Nothing to lose. I doubt it will ever get to Mr Cobb himself...but it might come to someone's attention.

 

Oh dear..look at that...one of the swords is at $1M :D

Now the question is...is this a stolen account, or a legit one that the seller possesses. Because the final value seller fees on a 1 Million sale are gonna be pretty steep. LOL.

 

Btw..if anyone knows them well enough..I would suggest getting the legit sword owners to put in the high bids themselves if they have an eBay account.

It would be hard for eBay to criticise a non-paying bidder if they could prove they already owned the item in question...Hmmm.

 

Brian

[sencho]

I'm talking to the seller right now by email.... I'm being very nice and chatty.... aksed him if I could inspect the swords in person.... he tried to direct me to some antique shops... emailed back saying I wanted to buy the ebay swords from him and wanted to inspect those particular ones.... we'll see... maybe he will give something away.... I have a few friends living in Thailand... soon sort this twit out!

 

Nice one Stephen!!! :D

 

Cheers

[Stever]

Beautiful, Stephen. Can't wait 'till that one's done. As you already have mentioned you were planning, I intend to contact the winning bidders on each sword once auction is complete if nothing is done before then.

 

I've also been trying to talk to the seller, asking for pics and whatnot. The only response was "You must be joking!" and then quoting his return policy. Hah!

 

BTW, Usagiya has put a news bulletin on their site relating to this issue. Apparently, they've also tried to contact eBay about the problem with no luck. Nice to see eBay cares. It'll be interesting to see how much they care after the auctions are over, and the swords don't show up.

 

cheers,

[Stephen]

punked out on me so i had to cancel the bid....shame. the other bidder said he would be shut down in the next 12 to 24hr ...well see.

[Grey Doffin]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Japanese-sword-Bisyu-Osafune-Hidemitsu-kabuto-FRAUD_W0QQitemZ300099034718QQihZ020QQcategoryZ95132QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[sencho]

He heh... nice Grey...

 

here's the clickable link... some reason it didn't come up when you posted..

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/Japanese-sword-Bisy ... dZViewItem

 

Cheers

[Guest Nanshoku-Samurai]

If you have plenty of time to waste go ahead and write to eBay. You might as well address your letters to your dustbin.

 

eBay has so much scam going on, Nihonto is just the tip of it. Now, if anyone falls victim to this fraudulent listing I hope he or she will at least learn something from it.

 

Just my two cents,

 

Max

[Stephen]

I have been in contact with Tokugawa art, they have taken over the bid up to 10,000. so if anyone wants to ....opps...uh never mind.

 

here is thier letter.

 

Hi. Stephen,

 

I have my people to bid US$10,000 and he just have done to protect the others anyway..

ID : kotetsulambretta

Also I have reported the case to Eaby right now.

 

 

Kind regards

Yuji Fukuoka

Tokugawa art team

[Marius]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Japanese-sword-Bisyu-Osafune-Hidemitsu-kabuto-FRAUD_W0QQitemZ300099034718QQihZ020QQcategoryZ95132QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

Grey,

 

The problem with your Fraud Aletr auction is that most of people looking fo nihonto on eBay filter out the junk by setting a price minimum (I certainly do it). So maybe you should raise the asking price to, say $300?

 

Best regards

[sencho]

I have been in contact with Tokugawa art, they have taken over the bid up to 10,000.

 

don't see any $10,000 bid yet...... :?

[Stephen]

it would take someone bidding more to bring it up :D