Odd Menuki...any ideas?

[CurtisR]

Found these on FleaBay...haven't bid on them but like that they are unusual *however* I can't tell just what the pattern or theme might be. The pics aren't all that clear, so I probably will avoid them but out of curiosity....

 

(I can tell they are some type of creature, but other than that I'm at a loss

 

Happy Holidays!

 

Curt R.

[IanB]

Curtis, They are rain dragons. A bit corroded but pleasing.

Ian Bottomley

[CurtisR]

Thank you Ian! I like them as well, but hadn't seen this form before. Very interesting.

 

Curtis R.

[Soshin]

Hi Curtis R.,

 

It looks like the menuki are made out of iron because I see what I think is red rust. I haven't seen many menuki sets made out of iron. Do you have any photos of the reverse side?

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[b.hennick]

Hi Curtis:

I collect iron menuki these look like iron. I looked on ebay but did not find them. Do you have a link.

[CurtisR]

Sure Barry - here it is:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/120828889023?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

 

Not a bad price but will probably go past my limit - hope they might be something for you. They do look old, and they're pretty large which I always find attractive.

 

Curtis

[CurtisR]

P.S. Barry ~

The description does say they're iron...what period would these be, do you suspect?

 

Curtis

[CurtisR]

Also, sorry I missed your post Mr. Stiles - the link (with pics of the reverse) is above...apologies!

 

Curtis

[Soshin]

  CurtisR said:

P.S. Barry ~

The description does say they're iron...what period would these be, do you suspect?

 

Curtis

 

Hi Curtis,

 

I would say middle to late Edo Period. Generally I aggree with the seller on eBay.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[IanB]

Surely they are not iron. They look like brass to me - see the lower examples mane. What you think is rust is where the bindings from the sword they came off has set up corrosion and left a coating of copper I oxide.

Ian B

[CurtisR]

If someone here on NMB gets them in-hand, I'd be very curious what the final outcome is on their construction - from the photos I can see how it could be either material, but I'm a novice . Either way, I've learned a good deal from the discussion & thanks all!

 

Curtis

[Soshin]

  IanB said:

Surely they are not iron. They look like brass to me - see the lower examples mane. What you think is rust is where the bindings from the sword they came off has set up corrosion and left a coating of copper I oxide.

Ian B

 

 

Hi Ian B.,

 

You could be right. It is really hard to tell in the photographs having the menuki set in hand would be the only way to determine for sure. The corrosion does have a reddish color to it but it might not be iron rust.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[sanjuro]

Just to continue this thread toward some sort of conclusion, I have just become the owner of these unusual menuki. The seller assures me they are indeed iron with a gold/gold alloy overlay. When they are in hand, I shall determine this one way or the other and report to those who may be interested.

[Mantis dude]

since I am not an expert on metals I can have trouble ascertaining what type of metal something is, however, iron vs copper should be easy.. I would assume a magnet would answer that question. I don't think I ever saw that type of menuki although I was thinking dragon, just the head is unique. What is a rain dragon or what is the legend behind it? thanks and Have great holidays.

[Jean]

Rain dragons don't have scales like myself (I am a rain dragon born in 1952)

[sanjuro]

Guys.

 

As their new custodian I too would like to know what the relevance of rain dragons is..... I believe they are also sometimes called smooth dragons, but references to them are not exactly prolific. Anyone with the information I seek and a willingness to share it with me will be very kindly thought of. Although I have been a nihontophile for many years, this is actually the first pair of menuki I have ever purchased purely because I like them. OK....... I have slightly wierd taste, but they are rather unusual. :D

[Mantis dude]

so it is just a dragon that exfoliates & moisturizes. The opposite tale of the ancient chinese legend of the dragon with the giant zit. Happy holidays and may you all get facials for presents (I tried to up the weirdness factor)

[nagamaki - Franco]

search Japanese water dragon ....

[sanjuro]

Thanks Franco...... Did you know there are actually living lizards called water dragons that are a popular pet????? There are dozens of the little critters for sale on the net. The search however did reveal some interesting stuff when I altered the search criteria a bit.

 

Just to cap off the subject, the menuki are now in hand and are definitely iron, duly confirmed with a magnet, with gold nunome overlay. Not quite as crude as they appear in the sellers pics. Definitely in need of some TLC, but not beyond bringing back to some semblance of originality with a little careful attention. Maybe earlier than Edo, but not sure yet. This is a learning curve for me, Tosogu is not my area of expertise. Pics if interested when all the crud and rust have been minimised. Advice from 'those in the know' on how that may best be done would be most welcome. :D