Owari Tsuba

[Akitombo]

Can some of the fellow members of this board help with the identification of the characters on this Owari tsuba.

In Henri Joly's Inscriptions on Japanese Sword fittings, one of the plates shows the main character, but not what its meaning is.

Regards

David

[Soshin]

Hi David,

 

Nice Owari Sukashi tsuba. Having some views of the rim would be great. I will do some searching and see if I can come up with something in terms of what the stylized Kanji characters are. Off the top of my head nothing comes to mind.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[Ford Hallam]

I wouldn't refer to these as stylised kanji Kanji ultimately evolved from these, much earlier, forms. These are archaic Chinese characters, possibly the earliest type, those found oracle bones.

 

This chart illustrates the sort of evolution the earlier forms went through to ultimately become what we recognise as kanji.

 

 

 

This is probably the most comprehensive site on-line dealing with the development of written Chinese.

 

A bit of detective work and the "hidden" meaning of the characters on the tsuba might be revealed.

[Pete Klein]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siddha%E1%B9%83_alphabet

 

They could be stylized Siddham / Bonji?

[Soshin]

Hi Everyone,

 

It could very well be a archaic Chinese form of a Kanji character. Sasano had some Kanayama tsuba in his last book with Kanji designs that also remind me of this tsuba. It could also be a Bonji character. Here is a link to a website I found really helpful in researching the following tsuba in my collection that has a Bonji character done in in-sukashi: http://www.onmarkproductions.com/html/buddhism.shtml. All of the Buddhas, Gods, etc. have Bonji as well as Kanji associated with them. After having seen a fair amount of Edo Period Nobuie copies I am starting to think my tsuba belongs to the Owari Nobuie School. The Bonji on my tsuba is for Fudo-Myo-O. Here is a direct link to my website to view the tsuba I am referring to: http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeo23jk/id20.html. I hope you find this information helpful.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[Koto]

kanji motif '寿' = longevity 长寿

[Ford Hallam]

I would have doubts, myself, about these being bonji because Siddham characters are not symmetrical at all. In fact they are very much asymmetrical.

[christianmalterre]

Yes-i would agree with Ford here...

It´s an very interesting piece!

(do not sell it-and if?-then let me know of course!) LOL!

 

How about the idea of stylised personnages(left and right)performing an so called "archaic war dance"?

Just an first idea here-i just saw this post...

Such stylised motive can partially ben seen on bronze mirrors...

?

 

Christian

[Akitombo]

Cheers guys, as always a library of knowledge.

It is a subject which needs further research.

As far as the tsuba itself is concerned, I have no plans to sell it, as it is one of my best loved.

I found it last year in a Paris flea market, buried under a ton of rubbish.

When asked, the stallholder said ten Euros, I could not get the note quickely enough out of my pocket.

It was worth the EuroStar ticket, hotel bill and my wife trying to eat her way through France.

It just shows that these items still lay awaiting us to rescue them.

Happy HUnting

David

[Steve Waszak]

David,

 

Fascinating history of your finding this tsuba. Its identical twin was for sale (quickly sold) some eight years ago on one of the sites listed in the links section here. I remember it because I hurried to buy it, but was too late. Very nice tsuba. Would love to see other photos of it... )

 

Cheers,

 

Steve

[Lance]

Could the 2 side pieces not be kanji at all, but a pair of stylized Vajra? The bottom could be an incense burner?, and maybe at the top above the seppa dai, it could be one of the paper ribbons hung in Shinto shrines? Lots of maybes, or I just failed the Rorschach test.......

Regards,

Lance

[Soshin]

Hi Lance,

 

I still think the ji-sukashi design is likely archaic Chinese characters. The design element above the seppa-dai is a weight used in money exchange. Please see the following link discussing it on a Kyo-Sukashi tsuba: http://kodogunosekai.com/2011/10/27/kyo-sukashi-testu-ji-sukashi-tsuba-%E4%BA%AC%E9%80%8F-%E9%89%84%E5%9C%B0-%E9%80%8F%E9%8D%94/. I Hope the author of the blog replies to the thread as he is very knowladge about Owari tsuba. The design element below is likely another archaic Chinese character.

 

Hi David,

 

The more I look at this tsuba it reminds me of mid period (i.e. Momoyama Period) Kanayama school work. Would love to see photos of the rim and have measurements including thickness. Nice story very different them many of my stories about finding a nice tsuba. Most of my stores just involve me saving money and waiting awhile.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[Koto]

The motif of the Kyo-Sukashi tsuba in the bove url link contains

1) bat

2) money

3) the sukashi kanji longevity.

 

The bat symbolizes happiness, as bat in Chinese pronounced 'fu' (蝠), the same sound as 'happiness' (福).

 

So, the overall motif of the tsuba reads 幸福と富貴と長命 or こうふくとふうきとちょうめい in Japanese, or 福祿壽 in Chinese.

 

You can see the caved out / sukashi longevity motif is in the shape of the one in the opening post.

[Ford Hallam]

The motif of the Kyo-Sukashi tsuba in the bove url link contains

1) bat

2) money

3) the sukashi kanji longevity.

 

The bat symbolizes happiness, as bat in Chinese pronounced 'fu' (蝠), the same sound as 'happiness' (福).

 

So, the overall motif of the tsuba reads 幸福と富貴と長命 or こうふくとふうきとちょうめい in Japanese, or 福祿壽 in Chinese.

 

You can see the caved out / sukashi longevity motif is in the shape of the one in the opening post.

 

Rich Turner and I would both disagree with that assessment. This is Rich's description;

 

The motif would be described as Myōga Kari Kai Zu 茗荷雁繋図 and includes Karigane 雁金 (Wild geese), Myōga 茗荷 (Japanese ginger) and Fundo 分銅 (Japanese weights).

 

I'm assuming you're suggesting the ginger motif is actually the kanji for longevity. This is obviously not so. A brief perusal of the ginger/myoga motif as used in sukashi tsuba designs will confirm this. In fact if you look closely at the myoga on Rich's tsuba you'll see the chiselled detailing of the plant that further confirms what it is.

[Bugyotsuji]

Has the internal cross piece on the left motif been cut/broken off at some point, or is it original?

[Marius]

The more I look at this tsuba it reminds me of mid period (i.e. Momoyama Period) Kanayama school work.

 

I am with you here, David. In one of the KTK catalogues (can't recall which one), there was a Kanayama tsuba. The kanji on it is "Ho" - protection. Pictures of tsuba and kanji attached.

[Soshin]

Hi Mariusz K.,

 

To develop my idea some more of it being a Kanayama school tsuba from Owari Province circa the Momoyama Period. The tsuchimei-ji and glossiness on the surface is fairly clear both are often seen in Kanayama tsuba. The large over sized seppa-dai in proportion to the rest of the guard is often seen in Kanayama tsuba as well. The ji-sukashi design is not as complex or involving as many different design elements as you would see in Owari Sukashi tsuba in my opinion. Having additional information from the owner would be helpful as I think it would confirm my theory. I would suspect the tsuba to be small in size and thick with many tekkotsu "iron bones" along the rim. I would also expect the rim to be either square or rounded square in shape. This is often seen in Owari tsuba of all schools. I posted awhile back a Owari tsuba I purchased on eBay for about $90.00 USD a few years ago and it papered early this year to NBTHK Hozon to an Owari school circa the late Edo Period. It had the rounded square rim and is small and very thick in size. Photos of it are up on my website for reference.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[Akitombo]

To add to this thread, the side has been filed, you can see the remains of the arm.

If you look at the Halberstadt Collection book, item 76 has a very near example, again with the side arm removed to allow a kozuka.

Size are as follows 2.82 inchs wide, 0.19 inchs thick on the mimi.

Regards

David

[christianmalterre]

Dear Gents

 

well,sorry here-but meanwhile it seems me that certain collectors do see "Holy Kanayama" everywhere...and if not-they do look and have an surch,till one slightest,minimal aspect of an item-(may show us just some similarities to known Kanayama-and up to then-ITS OF COURSE KANAYAMA!

Laugh!

Do not worry-this one here is certainly an very typical,classic,nice Owari which´s Patination unfortunately is down now...

Either way-an interesting Tsuba,which may make pleasure so to do further research in-and which of course is an very nice collectors object...

 

Christian

[Rich T]

Rich Turner and I would both disagree with that assessment.

 

Thanks Ford, I was going to suggest for a brief moment, Bat's in the Belfry lol

 

It is indeed Geese, Ginger and Weights (not money)

 

Now to the tsuba in question.

 

As a suggestion to David (original poster) it is always useful to add both pics of the rim and the dimensions, (height, width and thickness, both centre and rim) as all these things offer clues to the tsuba's origins. I am not sure it is Owari, but then as I said, I am not sure It does not strike me as Owari sukashi. It looks to have had a hard life also, and maybe cleaned ? hard to tell from that pic.

 

Kanayama motifs are obscure at best, though they are more defined when they use these types of characters. I'd be wondering if this might be awarded Den Kanayama at shinsa. It's a bit of a few things on first examination.

 

Rich

[Soshin]

To add to this thread, the side has been filed, you can see the remains of the arm.

If you look at the Halberstadt Collection book, item 76 has a very near example, again with the side arm removed to allow a kozuka.

Size are as follows 2.82 inchs wide, 0.19 inchs thick on the mimi.

Regards

David

 

 

Hi David,

 

From looking at the mimi the patina looks a bit thin and heavy rust was likely removed at some point. I have a Edo Period Owari Sukashi tsuba with a similar problem it was over cleaned in my opinion in Japan. It has very prominent tekkotsu that are artifactual and the result of heavy rust being removed. I am not seeing any of the large tekkotsu found on ealry Kanayama tsuba. Thickness and over all size is also consistent with either Momoyama or ealry Edo Period Kanayama school work. Thanks for taking the time to provide the additional information and photo.

 

Hi Rich,

 

Thanks for the additional information.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[edzo]

Has the internal cross piece on the left motif been cut/broken off at some point, or is it original?

 

 

Dear Bugyotsuji,

Given the shape of the seppa dai on that side i would sumit it was removed to make room for a kogai hitsu ana.

 

Respectfully, ed F

 

Edited: Make room for a Kozuka.

[Akitombo]

Any ideas for bringing it back to life.

I put iron tsuba into cotton pockets to help the rubbing.

I have never used oil, as I fear it may cover rust up.

In the "Good ole days", boiling in tea used to be done to get colour back.

Ideas anybody?

David

[Marius]

No tea. Unless you want to send it to someone who is qualified (and most people are not) to repatinate the tsuba, it is best to leave it alone.

[Soshin]

Any ideas for bringing it back to life.

I put iron tsuba into cotton pockets to help the rubbing.

I have never used oil, as I fear it may cover rust up.

In the "Good ole days", boiling in tea used to be done to get colour back.

Ideas anybody?

David

 

Hi David,

 

I was told by multiple sources offline and online not to boil a iron tsuba in tea. I have tried the iron tsuba into white cotton pockets. I think this approach is fine with helping to build patina. Cycling a freeze cycle has work for me as well making sure no red rust is allowed to develop. This might work on your tsuba as the rim has the thin patina that shows up as grey spots. Hope you find the information helpful. Another general good rule of thump is to go slow and don't use any strong chemicals.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[Chris Colman]

Hi, Nothing to add to meaning of the tsuba, but I did find in my saved photos a Kaneyama with similar motif.

regards

chris colman

[ububob]

Let's not forget the horsehair brush that Sasano used.

[Tim Evans]

The characters in the tsuba in question are "shu". See Nelson's Character dictionary #285. It means master, main principal, important, head of house, lord, etc. Can refer to a person or an idea. Sasano mentions it also means cinnibar. See M. Sasano's silver book, page 139.

 

The character in the tsuba at the top of page 2 is not "ho" but "fuku", Nelsons #3741. It means serve in the military or discharge duties.

[Marius]

Tim,

 

many thanks for the correction. Indeed, regarding the Kanayama tsuba on the top of page 2 of this thread, you are right. It is not "Ho"- thanks for pointing out this mistake (which I have repeated after the KTK book).

 

For "Ho" anybody interested, please look up Sasano's silver book (Japanese Sworguards Masterpieces from the Sasano collection), a quite similar Kanayama tsuba #140, page 171 - "the character meaning 'to preserve' (ho-no-ji). Pic attached.

[Curran]

Early Edo example.