秋水不動霜華無迹

[Guido]

I hope our resident Japanese language experts (Morita / Moriyama / Sesko / Robson) will be able to help me out:

 

I posted the attached photo already in another thread (viewtopic.php?f=4&t=11703), but don’t want to take it more off topic there than I already did; Mr. Tanobe kindly signed a book for me a few years ago, and although the poetry is not entirely lost on me, I always wondered how 秋水不動霜華無迹 would be best translated.

 

I know that 秋水 (Shūsui [autumn water]) is an euphemism for “brightly shining sword edge”, and 不動 (Fudō) means “unmoving”. 霜華 (Shimogusa) is a frost covered flower, but how does 無迹 (mu ato), i.e. “nothing after (it)”, fit in?

The best I can come up with is “The brightly shining sword edge is like an unmoving, frost covered flower. Period.”

 

Furthermore, he addressed me as 大兄 (Taikei) – in written Japanese this expression is, to my knowledge, used for peers of the same age or slightly older. I’m certainly not his peer when it comes to swords, and he’s about 10 years older than me. I guess he just was extremely polite?

[george trotter]

Guido,

I'll probably get into trouble for this, but I think you are just about there.

Shimogusa is frost covered grass (not flower).

there seems to be no word muato and the modified variation of ato is seki/ato...so maybe Museki? untrod, untracked.

The bright shining sword edge is like the untrodden frost covered grass....

or maybe something else entirely...it is hard to translate Japnese poetry.

Regards,

[Nobody]

This is only my guess.

 

秋水不動霜華無迹

A limpid sword is immovable, (while) a frostwork dissipates.

[Markus]

I´m not yet able to get the meaning of the line but I found out that

sôka (霜華) could also refer to just the frost, i.e. because it is so

beautifully white like a flower.

I would translate museki (無迹) as "[something] leaves no traces" for the time being.

 

So my translation would be: "A polished sword remains [to be bautiful/sharp]

and does not fade like the frost."

 

And regarding the "taikei", did you ask Tanobe-sensei after a boozed night for a signature?

Maybe he thought YOU are actually ten years older on that very day.

[george trotter]

Hi Nobody san,

on second thought, maybe "the still water of autumn is like the untrodden frost covered grass"...?

or..."the still water of autumn, the untrodden frost covered grass"

Regards,

[Bugyotsuji]

It's a lovely poem. Perhaps it touches on the fragility of beautiful things. Was he exhorting you to keep it beautiful, suggesting that your effort will keep this sword suspended from the normal laws of Nature? Is it possible that the form of address will take any sting out of unsought advice?

 

I'll get my coat...

[Ford Hallam]

Hmmm...very subtle and nuanced poetry but I think I've managed to glimpse the hidden meaning.

 

Following from Koichi San's translation;

 

 

秋水不動霜華無迹

A limpid sword is immovable, (while) a frostwork dissipates.

 

The limp sword ( the inference is clear )

is unmoved...

frostiness descends.

 

This must be the saddest haiku ever. It also cleverly explains the "Senior Citizen" honorific, don't you think.

[John A Stuart]

Ford, leave it to you!!! John

[cabowen]

[cabowen]

Word play.....water remains while the frost is transient -> the sword (spirit) is immovable/permanent while life (the mundane) is fleeting.......

[Brian]

Fun and games aside, it is awesome to watch the collective minds of the NMB working on a topic such as this one. Really enjoying the progress.

 

Brian

[Pete Klein]

Yes, Brian -- I've always enjoyed a nice rousing game of pin the tail on the donkey...

[k morita]

Hi,

Shusui秋水 means a sword.

Shoka霜華 has two meanings,one is frost flower in the winter(Shoka1),and two is Temper line or Nie of a sword(Shoka2).

 

The meaning of a dedication is as follows:

"Although frost flower dissolves, the temper line of a sword does not disappear."

 

Explanation:

Although frost flower dissolves(Shoka1), the temper line(Shoka 2) of a sword(Shusui) does not disappear.

 

Did you know,Token Biijutsu Journal of NBTHK-- the most early title was "Soka". 霜華

 

Sorry poor my English.

[Guido]

Thank you all for your thoughts / interpretations of Mr. Tanobe's poem, especially to Morita-san for consolidating all the readings and coming up with a most convincing translation - it all makes sense now!

 

@ Markus: I'll take the 5'th (... nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself ...) on your question

 

@ Pete: I'm more convinced than ever that one day you will burn in hell.

 

@ Ford: You will burn together with Pete, which is an even more severe punishment since you don't believe in hell!

[Ford Hallam]

He he, Pete and I in hell...reckon we could stage a coup d'état. Then there'll be some changes around here

[Guido]

[cabowen]

Explanation:

Although frost flower dissolves(Shoka1), the temper line(Shoka 2) of a sword(Shusui) does not disappear.

 

I've seen plenty that have.....poetic license I suppose....

[Ford Hallam]

:lol:

[george trotter]

Hey Ford,

maybe it's time to do a commemorative tsuba (with menuki), of two little devils chasing each other round the rim (which contains sukashi flames)...

:lol:

[Pete Klein]

George -- you will never know how funny that remark was to me!!!