runagmc Posted November 26, 2011 Report Posted November 26, 2011 Here's a new sword for kantei on aoi-art.com. I'm having trouble with it and wondered if anybody wanted to give their perspective, just for the hell of it. It's suppose to be late muromachi, ichimai boshi, short thin yakidashi and wider sugu based nie deki hamon, and looks like a niji or sanji mei. Anyway here's the link, http://www.aoi-art.com/kantei/kantei166.html Quote
runagmc Posted November 26, 2011 Author Report Posted November 26, 2011 It says late muromachi, so it would have to be like the 4th gen Hiromitsu. I was thinking mabey late Sengo school or Shimada... but I'm still not sure at all. How sure are you about Hiromitsu? Quote
runagmc Posted November 26, 2011 Author Report Posted November 26, 2011 At first I thought Hiean jo Nagayoshi, but that might be too early... Quote
runagmc Posted November 26, 2011 Author Report Posted November 26, 2011 The horimono matchs some on Soshu Hiromasa, but I don't know if that's too early as well, plus I haven't seen yakidashi on his works... Quote
runagmc Posted December 25, 2011 Author Report Posted December 25, 2011 Jean, we were both close, but wrong. It was Fuyuhiro, who was a student of Soshu Tsunahiro, who some say probably came from the Hiromasa line. They also metioned that it looks like Heianjo Nagayoshi, which was my first guess. These are always a good learning tool, specially for those of us who don't get to handle new swords all the time. Quote
Jean Posted December 25, 2011 Report Posted December 25, 2011 This one is much easier, the nakago pattern is a tell tale so is the symetrical hamon: http://www.aoi-art.com/kantei/kantei170.html Quote
Brian Posted December 25, 2011 Report Posted December 25, 2011 Yep. Nakago shape, hamon, the fact that the tani are close to, or go off, the ha (why did he do that? ) Brian Quote
Eric H Posted December 25, 2011 Report Posted December 25, 2011 MURAMASA But what Muramasa?... :lol: Eric Quote
Brian Posted December 25, 2011 Report Posted December 25, 2011 I will also go with Musamasa II Dates fit, as does boshi and hamon. Not easy to choose between the generations, but I think II. Brian Quote
Lee Bray Posted December 26, 2011 Report Posted December 26, 2011 Late Muromachi, I say Muramasa 3rd. Quote
Jean Posted December 26, 2011 Report Posted December 26, 2011 Lee, Taking into account the hamon and the mei location I would eliminate 3rd generation: MURAMASA 1st BUN-GI 1501 MURAMASA 2nd TAI-EI 1521 MURAMASA 3rd TEN-SHO 1573 Late Muromachi begins roughly in 1500 AD, so strictly speaking all generations are sue Muromachi. 1573 is Azuchi Momoyama Quote
David Flynn Posted December 26, 2011 Report Posted December 26, 2011 Bye the bye, isn't Tsuruta in Gaol? Quote
Lee Bray Posted December 26, 2011 Report Posted December 26, 2011 Jean, You're correct. I got my info from Hawley, which lists Muramasa 3 as working from 1521-32 and the first two generations as much earlier. Quote
Eric H Posted December 26, 2011 Report Posted December 26, 2011 so is the symetrical hamon mostly but not exclusively Oshigata, it's one of the three Muramasa Eric Quote
Jacques Posted December 26, 2011 Report Posted December 26, 2011 Hi, Personaly i've noticed the objectivity of the oshigata drawn by Tsuruta san... Quote
runagmc Posted December 26, 2011 Author Report Posted December 26, 2011 I was thinking the same thing Jacques. Jean,You're correct. I got my info from Hawley, which lists Muramasa 3 as working from 1521-32 and the first two generations as much earlier. Yes, in Hawley's they were trying to build on the theory that shodai Muramasa was somehow a student of Masamune. I wonder where this idea came from... Quote
Eric H Posted December 27, 2011 Report Posted December 27, 2011 Personaly i've noticed the objectivity of the oshigata drawn by Tsuruta san... ... I think the Aoi Tanto is that Muramasa as the last Oshigata Eric Quote
Eric H Posted December 30, 2011 Report Posted December 30, 2011 Although not specifically mentioned, this Aoi-Tanto, based on the overall workmanship and the partially legible mei is a work by Muramasa II, the nidai. As to the last Oshigata I had placed, it‘s also the nidai. So I was on the same track as Jean and Brian. The original comment on the last Oshigata by Honma Junji: This is a typical mei inscription of Nidai Muramasa. Generally speaking, the hamon tempered in an identical layout on both sides is a trait found in common in all Muramasa works regardless of generations. The hamon above the monouchi in this example, however is not necessarily typical of this smith; on the contrary, it should be considered exeptional. Further a Nakago with mei of the Shodai Muramasa Eric Quote
george trotter Posted December 30, 2011 Report Posted December 30, 2011 If I may express my personal opinion about this polish...how can anyone apprais this sword from a photograph of the hamon?...How different the real hamon is on the oshigata (beautiful), compared with the ha-dori hamon of the photograph (sorta suguba with a few lumps). One thing about this post-war move away from sashikomi polish is that now one actually needs the oshigata to assess the true hamon and thus the sword...how long will people keep on admiring the unadmireable? Let's get back to the sashikomi polish for such hamon. No offense meant to anyone, Quote
falconj Posted December 30, 2011 Report Posted December 30, 2011 Bye the bye, isn't Tsuruta in Gaol? Dave , when I contacted him last week, he was in Ayoama, thats in Minato Ward Tokyo, don't know that they have a goal there? No offense meant to anyone I think you are right George, and I really don't think you could really offend anyone our " shiro kuma"!! regards to all John Quote
Takahashi Posted December 30, 2011 Report Posted December 30, 2011 Hi folks, I was just wondering whether the Muramasa on the Aoi Kantei is the same as the one discussed in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11399&p=97391&hilit=muramasa#p97391 Funnily the Tanto on http://www.e-sword.jp was just sold a few days ago. Might have been Tsaruta-san who bought it. Cheers, Quote
Brian Posted December 30, 2011 Report Posted December 30, 2011 Yep..does appear so. Looking at the different photos presented in different lighting conditions, it is interesting how the oshigata appears to "grow" the hamon in places where it seems to slip off the ha momentarily. :? Brian Quote
runagmc Posted December 30, 2011 Author Report Posted December 30, 2011 George, I'm with you on the sashikomi vs kesho for the most part, but I will say , there is a HUGE difference in a good kesho polish and a bad one. The one on this Muramasa tanto is a bad one. Quote
Guido Posted December 31, 2011 Report Posted December 31, 2011 Bye the bye, isn't Tsuruta in Gaol? Dave , when I contacted him last week, he was in Ayoama, thats in Minato Ward Tokyo, don't know that they have a goal there?Actually he's in Yoyogi, Shibuya Ward. Anyhow, why would anyone want to spread the rumor that he's imprisoned? Quote
David Flynn Posted December 31, 2011 Report Posted December 31, 2011 I was told that by someone who read it on the sword forum in Japan. Not trying to spread rumours, just checking. Quote
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