Chemical analysis results

[Adrian S]

Hello Veli,

 

Yes we did do multiple readings on the same spot and achieved consistancy. Yes we also trialed different spots along the same blade and got consistant readings again. As I stated before, this first trial was to assess the viability of the HHXRF for this purpose, which we did. The time available to us was limited. Before the next trial I am preparing some calibration samples that will also answer some more questions on the impact of the surface condition and preparation (i.e. corrosion, Japanese polish, nugui).

 

The next step after we have confirmed the effect of surface preparation will be to confirm the results of the HHXRF on the calibration samples with full labratory test. Assuming all goes well, we will then conduct an extensive trial, for which purpose I will rent the machine for a week and will at the same time collect as much data as possible. A methodology will need to be worked out and I'm relying on the technical department to assist me although I already have some ideas of my own. I would like to get the testing proceedure down to 10 minutes per sword.

 

As far as relative differences in concentrations, even from this very first trial we are seeing significant variations, although it is too early to make any reliable calls on what they mean. We need to test far more swords to see the pattern in these variations. Once we see those patterns emerge then we can make assessments of how significant the variations need to be to form classifications. Does that make sense?

 

Early days yet Veli, we can't ask too much at this stage.

 

cheers,

[Veli]

Hello Adrian!

 

Yes, finding these variation patterns surely is one of the most important and interesting tasks of your project!

 

By "consistent" do you mean the results were within +- 2% of the average value? (This would almost be too good to be true...)

 

BR,

 

Veli

[Adrian S]

Hello Veli,

 

Yes, the results were consistently within 2% variation. I also tested the machine on known steel alloys ( hairdressing scissors I manufacture ) and it picked the alloy and was spot on every time! For $56,000 the HHXRF had better be too good to be true! I'm told that over 7,000 units have been sold already and it is proving to be very accurate in the field. I am also a little skeptical so that is why it is important to run the cross check laboratory trials on prepared samples next. But I must say, the variations are significant enough. For example Titanium readings on the blades varying from 0.008% on a Shinshinto ( most of the Shinshinto had none at all ) to a whopping 0.064% on an old Koto tanto blade I tested. That's a lot more than a small variation, that's eight times the Titanium level or a 800% variation. This is promising, but I must stress again, it is too early to draw any realistic conclusions. We may be looking at 20 or more different steel categories to establish patterns for. It's a big job, it may take years.

 

cheers,

[Jacques]

Hi,

 

Studies (for those who are interested by the scientific approach of nihonto).

 

https://journals.uair.arizona.edu/index ... /1713/1717

 

http://www.yamakawadojo.com/Japanese%20 ... 202009.pdf

[Ford Hallam]

Merci beaucoup, Jacques. C'est apprécié.

[drbvac]

Very interesting indeed - I wonder where they cut the sample from on a Muramasa 2 blade in the first article ?

[Adrian S]

hi guys,

 

In case you missed it

 

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=11735

 

Most AMS labs can now do C14 on a sword if you want it done. Lawrence Livermore University has a paper on the latest method , I can send you a copy if interested.

 

The latest KTK Convention Catalouge has an article by Boris Markhasin where he has pieces of an old chukoto AMS C14 dated from pieces of the wood and laquer on the mounts as I recall. He had it done by the CAIS lab at the University of Geogria and confirmed by the ANSTO here in Sydney.

 

The slice and dice chemical and structural analysis along with micrographic analysis has been done since the 1920s on swords. Refer to studies by Tawara Kuniichi in "Nihonto no Gakuteki Kenkyu". Unfortunately it falls a bit short on the chemical work due to the technology of the time.

 

Happy holidays,

[drbvac]

Sorry -my comment was this quote from the "second article"

 

The specimen was taken from an old sword which was produced by the 2nd generation of Muramasa about 600

years ago. The sword was named after him and called ..Muramasa 2nd... A small piece was cut from the original

sword having the size 4mm ( thickness)22mm (width)..4mm...... (length) for experimental observations.

 

I am not sure where a piece this large could be removed and leave the sword intact.

 

B