Translation help needed for Kaneshige with cutting test

[Anthony de Vos]

Hello!

 

I just bought this sword;

 

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/190597675907 ... 600wt_1185

 

I haven't recieved it as of yet. I'm trying to find out as much info as possible from the papers and inscriptions on the nagako.

The sword is attributed to kaneshige. I don't seem to find the 2 kanjis representing kane+shige among those in the rows describing the smith on the papers. It would be helpful if someone could point out where they are.

 

Also which one of all the kaneshiges would it be? When was the sword manufactured, by a Kaneshige long before or close to the testing time?

 

Who performed, and where was the cutting test done in 1655?

 

Greatful for any help

 

Regards,

 

Anthony de Vos

[Drago]

First of let me say: You lucky b*! I was bidding on that too but stopped when it went over 3500 Euro...

 

This is what it says in Japanese "大かりがね両度弐ツ胴大川八右衛門両三度土壇佛是禄"

 

I'm not really sure what most of it means, but something like "??? 2 bodies, Okawa (place in Fukuoka or some river in Tokyo or Kyoto), 8 place guards, two or three times, execution ground (or raised clay mound (where they stacked the bodies)), ???" I can't even begin to figure out what the first and last part means.

 

But this is only my attempt using an online dictionary. There certainly is someone out there who is better at this than me...

[Anthony de Vos]

Hello Tobias!

 

Thank you for your effort, eller ska jag säga tack, Tobias låter svenskt.

 

Anthony

[Mark]

congratulations on winning the sword, i had bid but you liked it a whole lot more. The paper looks to say Izumi no Kami kaneshige, maker from around 1650, it seemed to me strange that the sword would be cut down then tested within a couple of years but who knows what happened, flashy nakago for sure

[John A Stuart]

yes Izumi no Kami Kaneshige

[leo]

Anthony,

as far as I read the ebay description, the sword tester of this blade is Ogawa Hachiemon Nagatsugu(大川八右衛門長次).

According to Guido´s list this guy worked between 1615 and 1624!

 

Regards,

Martin

[leo]

Hm, there is still hope - the sellers description might be wrong.

When I look at the nakago, the reading could be Ogawa Hachiemon Shigeharu (大川八右衛門重治). Would make more sense as he worked until Kanbun!

 

Regards,

Martin

[Anthony de Vos]

Hello!

 

Thank you John, Mark and Martin for the contributions. Since it's Izumi no Kami kaneshige could it been somewhat older than 1650 and maybe got damage, cut down and tested 1655?

What about the test, 2 bodys but once or twice? And how?

 

Great help thanks!

 

Anthony

[Jacques D.]

Hi,

 

5660 $

[Anthony de Vos]

Hello Jacques!

 

Does your reply implying that I'm stupid paying 5600 Australian dollars?

 

Regards,

 

Anthony

[Jacques D.]

Hello Jacques!

 

Does your reply implying that I'm stupid paying 5600 Australian dollars?

 

Regards,

 

Anthony

 

 

I think yes

[Anthony de Vos]

Hello Jacques!

 

Considering your choice of smilies I hope my "stupidity" Didn't offend you to much.

I'm probably ignorant regarding most subjects related to nihonto, the accurate general monetary evaluation one of them, but since I'm very satisfied with the purchase and only the thought of recieving it makes me very happy, it wasn't that stupid after all.

Since the sword in your eyes are immensely overpriced I must also have made the seller very happy which then makes two of us being i good mood. Difficult to put a price on happines :D

 

Bye the way Jacques, do you have any ideas on the translation regarding the cutting test, that would be much appriciated.

 

Kind Regards,

 

Anthony

[Jean]

Anthony,

 

Have a try, they are always more or less standard

[leo]

Don`t get a heart attack, Anthony, it is not that bad!

I have seen a lot of beginners, also on this board, do worse with a sword! In Euro it is 4200,- + import and I seriously doubt that any dealer in France, Germany or Sweden sells a papered wakizashi with a tameshi mei(which is legit imho) and regardless which attribution, for much less than that.

 

Unfortunately I just lost a bidding contest here:

 

http://www.bidders.co.jp/item/bid/161693350

 

I hope for his sake it was nobody from this board!

[Brian]

Jacques...

What an absolutely pointless post. I had such high hopes you had improved. :|

If you have anything constructive to add..then add it. Otherwise resist the urge to hint at things. Gimei or not...I am sure the buyer is aware of the risk.

 

Brian

[Anthony de Vos]

Martin, regarding the test cutter I can follow the first 4 kanji that implies the tester you suggested, but i can't see that the rest seems to fit?

 

Jean, I am slowly progressing on the row regarding the date,I find the era and year 1655, also the kanjis for month and day and also the figures 7 and 6. I find it difficult though that some kanjis have several different meanings.

 

Anyhow I'm happy so far for all the help.

 

Regards,

 

Anthony

[leo]

Anthony,

we have e few problems here.

1. The overall pic of your Kicho paper in the sellers album is so tiny that it is almost impossible to recognize the scribble of the appraiser in detail!

2. The blow up pix show only parts of the paper.

3. On the small pic I cannot even see if the saidan mei is in the paper at all!

4. On the nakago even with the missing gold inlay the kanjis "mon" and "haru" can be recognized. The "hachi" and the "shige" I cannot see. This can have several reasons: I am unable to translate it, the cutter sometimes used other types of kanji, my books are wrong and most of all, the world is not always perfect!

 

So, if you spent this much money, why don´t you take the time to google the sword tester lists, buy a set of Fukunaga´s Kubikiri Asaemon books, sit down for a few hours and study the signatures and the oshigata? You will know much more after this! Probably others on the bord know more about other literature on this topic.

 

Best,

Martin

[Anthony de Vos]

Hello Martin!

 

I do apologise for the poor material. Since I haven't recieved the blade yet, I'm unable to provide better pictures as for now. Thanks for your suggestions regarding how to proceed in deciphering the kanjis on nagako and papers.

 

Bye now,

 

Anthony

[Anthony de Vos]

Hi!

 

Some later info regarding a sword for JD.

On 11/17/2011 at 11:09 AM, Jacques D. said:

 

 

I think yes

Sometimes FLAK miss the target🤣