The different Mei of Nagamitsu

[Rich S]

Steve

 

That belief about two stroke Naga was written long, long ago. I said it was my belief, not proven fact. There have been several three stroke naga blades appeared since then. Likely that is not accurate; who knows??

 

David

Yes, I mentioned several of them on that page.

------------------------

 

I wish folks would read the bulletin on my old website.

http://www.japaneseswordindex.com/bulletin.htm

 

Thanks rich

 

[Swords]

Yes I know but how do you rate the from another or can the at the mei the way it’s signed have any bearing of which one is better what  also why are there 2 strokes naga verses 3 

[Rich S]

I don't rate them, just liked Nagamitsu blades. Have had 6-8 of them, now only 3. Why two styles? No idea.

Rich (a non-discriminating accumulator)

[Swords]

Well I guess it’s a mystery I just hope mine was well made And hope they were at least traditional made Another of my concerns because other 2 or 3 signature naga I would hope it’s still a sword that’s known for there cutting ability and that they were as follows being true for 2 or 3 stoke naga

Sword tang is chisel signed "Nagamitsu". 

Also known as Ichiryushi and Ichihara Nagamitsu. 

 

A Rikugen Jumei Tosho (Army Commissioned Swordsmith) and made swords

for the Osaka Rikugun Zoheisho (Osaka Army Arsenal) during WW2!

Listed in John Slough's book page 123-125.

 

[Rich S]

Steve

 

All Ichihara,etc. Nagamitsu that I've ever seen are true Nihonto (traditionally made) and he/they were RJT smiths, not to worry.

Rich

[Swords]

Even just 2 engraving mei not long signature ?

[Swords]

Rich What you said makes me makes me feel better about what you said.  Since you own multiple Nagamitsu swords dose the hamon style determine the. Quality?  my is more subtle rather than wavy I was told it was one of the boring ones

 

steve

[Rich S]

No, Nagamitsu were made with a variety of hamon styles. While quality is not effected IMHO, price is-  westeners seem to like the fancier choji, etc. hamon.    Western tastes differ significantly from Japanese aesthetics. IMHO we (westners) need to learn to appreciate the simpler things and not just in Nihonto.The suguha swords are fine swords - some collectors say it is easier to make a good suguha than other styles - for any smith. ?? Please keep in ind this is just MHO, I speak for no one else's experience.

Rich

[Swords]

Hi Rich Some times I repeat the same questions and always looking for a reason of negatives rather than positives ! My only concern is the hamon ! not as beautiful as I would like it but I guess they were different it’s just I got the boring one...

All in all my Nagamitsu sword is probably near perfect blade mounts scabbard handle even the Tsuba  and seppas are the same  numbers because they match I’m guessing nothing on the sword was ever a replacement 

Since you have owned multiple Nagamitsu swords I trust your judgment Thanks for your help 

 

steve

[Rich S]

Steve

 

Boring isn't the correct word I think. No offense intended, but that seems to be the western aesthetic. Suguha are beautiful; can be full of exciting workings (hataraki), etc.

rich

[Swords]

Also feel better after getting your feed back 

I’m a rookie in the sword world i made my share of mistakes and  wish I hadn’t sold some or returned because Not fully knowing the value or prize until it’s gone.!!

I get a little pssst when some of so called experts get through picking these swords apart and wished I hadn’t bought it.  but I think it’s it’s a good place to get others opinions

I think sometimes people get caught up in prices and don’t appreciate the history 

 

steve

 

[Rich S]

Steve

 

You think Nihonto snobbery is bad. I'm mainly a knife collector (have been since age 7), the knife collecting community is several orders of magnitude worse.

Of course I'm a traditonalist, have carried the same pocket knife (Victorinox tinker) for about 30 years. Have had maybe a thousand or so; now down to a couple hundred

Rich

 

Apology to all - off topic.

[Swords]

To each his some people collect bottles caps could be worse I have a question now sure if anyone knows but here it is Since these Nagamitsu swords were as follows 

A Rikugen Jumei Tosho (Army Commissioned Swordsmith) who made swords

for the Osaka Rikugun Zoheisho (Osaka Army Arsenal) during WW2!  Since they obviously were done by many different smiths ? How much time was used for each sword the forging process how many folds etc including the wrapping of handle and scabbard with hardware   I know it’s difficult to assess but just curious if anyone has information  ?

 

steve

 

 

[Rich S]

I can't answer that. Haven't seen anything about number of folds or time involved. There are several pictures around that show rooms of women doing the polishing and itomaki for other large wartime forges. Some war time forges were literally production line setups. Forge, polish, mount, out the door. Don't know about Nagamitsu, but doubt that was one of them (no proof pro or con).

Rich

 

 

[Swords]

Would be nice if others would hav any information for these Nagamitsu swords ever thing else is discussion 

Any body hav any idea the forging process for each sword of how long it takes to make a sword how many people involved and steps  from start to finish  I know because many smiths used his signature just a ballpark?

 

Steve

 

[Rich S]

Steve

Should add that assembly line sword production is nothing new. It also occurred during the Sengoku period (late 1400's-ca. 1600) when every daimyo was fighting the every other for land control. Thousands of swords needed then.

 

Also I seem to recall (?) that most war era swords were simple Kobuse construction with approx. 8 -10 folds ( 256 to 1024 layers +/-).

Other folks please chime in. I am NOT the Nagamitsu guru.

Rich

[Swords]

Rich Im guessing you and I are the only Nagamitsu sword enthusiast and no one knows the answer to this riddle? Maybe some one will have information 

 

steve

[Kolekt-To]

What is the most common reason that a smith like Nagamitsu would have changed his name? 

[Bruce Pennington]

I have never read anything on any smith (not that I follow smiths or nihonto, so feel free to disregard) about how many folds each one uses.  The RJT regulations simply states that "multi-folding" will be used.

[Rich S]

Just FYI, the approximate number of layers is calculated by 2expN where N is number of folds. Just an approximation as smith may forge layers together so not seen/counted etc. Some may have used more, some less. Of course that doesn't apply to blades like this which are hot mill rolled layered damascus ( with VG10 core). color change due to lighting.

 

Rich

 

Geoff  -

I didn't know the Nagamitsu in question ever changed his name???  Just used several styles of signing. Of course, as was pointed, out there were numerous smiths named Nagamitsu through history. Just during Showa: They signed Noshu (Seki, Mino) Nagamitsu, Kawazaki Nagamitsu, Kuruma ju Nagamitsu, Takayama Uhei Nagamitsu and Endo Nagamitsu. They are of no known relation to Ichihara Nagamitsu.

[Kolekt-To]

Thanks for your informative response Rich!

[Swords]

Sorry Bruce for taking so much time to answer you said RJT regulations simply states that "multi-folding" will be used.?  Can I asked where you found that?

 

Also just curious would a sword Signed Emura Saku verses Nagamitsu be a better sword or dose it matter ?

 

steve

[Bruce Pennington]

Steve,

George Trotter was kind enough to translate these pages from the army regulation.

As to the difference between the two swordsmith’s, I’m not the right guy to ask about that. I don’t follow them that closely. I know both are very popular for their own reasons. You can find  discussions about them both with a search of the forums.

 

[Swords]

Wow Great information would make Nagamitsu 2 engraving 2 or 3 stroke naga fit this description ?

If so it states some tamahagane was used and 

Are known for strength I didn’t tamahagane was used for these mass produced Nagamitsu swords I guess it so since they were made The RJT regulations 

 

thanks Steve 

[Rich S]

Steve

 

Take this entire discussion about Nagamitsu, substitute Emura and you have exactly the same discussion all over again 

 

Rich

[Bruce Pennington]

2 hours ago, Swords said:

tamahagane was used for these mass produced Nagamitsu swords

But we don’t know that for sure.  We only know that a blade made by an RJT qualified smith was made with tamahagane if it had the star stamp.  There are many blades made by the Smiths without stars. They might be non-traditionally made.

[Rich S]

Do we know with absolute certainty that all star stamped blades were made from tamahagane?  Maybe a few (or a lot) of star stamped were mis-stamped by accident or intention???

No absolute proof of any of it.

[Swords]

According to the documents that RJT qualified smith was allocated made tamahagane and didn’t mentioned star stamp unless I didn’t see it but will

read it again I might have missed dont quote me I remember reading  that some where 

 

steve

[Rich S]

Then why aren't ALL RJT swords star stamped????

I think we are going in endless circles. My brain hurts.

Need a good nights sleep - bye you'al

[Swords]

Good question don’t see any thing in this document saying it has to be star stamped maybe all RJT qualified smiths don’t need to be 

Any one have any thing they can add??