to be polished or not to be...tadahiro blade?

[EricM]

hi all

i have a blade 72 cm nagasa signed and hamon suguha

"nobody" did the great job (as usual to identify it as either hizen kuni no ju omi daijo fujiwara tadahiro (nidai) or hizen kuni omi daijo fujiwara tadayoshi (yondai) (or eventually gimei)!

i compared the mei with a few oshigata and tadahiro's signature is exactly the same (for the 7 first kanji as the other ones are not that clear). this smith used to do suguha as well as choji.

this blade belonged to a field officier during WWII and the tsuka fittings were amazingly corroded (guess because of salt+humidity for 50 years) so the tang looks older than a shinto piece

the blade is is good shape, but is stained with what i believe is blood and received a massive shock which created a hagire (too bad!!!!!!!!!!!)

 

so i am wondering if it is a good idea to have it polished (down to earth question as it is expensive ?

if we consider it is not gimei, would it get a paper from the NTHK or NTBHK with a hagire?

financially speaking, i paid the blade in the $1000 range but what would be the approximative value with a polish and paper if it not gimei ? i know that a hagire is not a good news on a blade so even if it is a big smith what could i get if i need to sell it (considering that polish and paper would be in the $2000 range)

anyway i like it so could enjoy it like that with its new - 1700 century fittings

thx for your answers

eric

 

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/5839/tachimq3.jpg

http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/8060 ... gs2va9.jpg

http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/356/ ... meiax5.jpg

 

 

 

Nagasa : 72 cm

nakago : 21 cm

kasane habaki : 0,7 cm

kasane yokote : 0,5 cm

mihaba habaki : 2,9 cm

mihaba yokote : 2,1 cm

Motohada : 2,5 cm

 

 

http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/403/hamon1ph1.jpg

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/7836/hamon2kn0.jpg

http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/9779/hagireyj0.jpg

 

reference oshigata

http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/7668 ... iroel1.jpg

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/2140 ... rcykc7.jpg

http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/3272 ... ai2ki8.jpg

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/9091 ... daicq2.jpg

[Bungo]

" the blade is is good shape, but is stained with what i believe is blood and received a massive shock which created a hagire (too bad!!!!!!!!!!!) "

 

unless $ is no object ( 3k + or - a few hundreds ), then have it polished and get to enjoy the hada, hamon etc.

Otherwise leave it the way it is and what a story one can weave, blood, gore and all.

 

 

milt the ronin

[Grey Doffin]

IMHO, unless money truely is no object, it makes no sense to polish this blade. Even without the ha-gire it is seriously compromised by the corrosion of the nakago; shinto nakago are expected to be in good shape.

Then there's the ha-gire. Neither the NBTHK or either NTHK will paper the blade with that defect. You can get as many opinions as you like about the mei but still, nobody will pay you what you have into it after a polish if you want to sell some day (and you will want to sell some day).

There are a million better ways to spend the money on your Nihonto collection. You don't want to spend the next however many years saying, "Too bad about the ha-gire."

Grey

[Brian]

unless $ is no object ( 3k + or - a few hundreds ), then have it polished and get to enjoy the hada, hamon etc.

I think you meant if $ is no object.....

 

There is no way you will recover your money if you have a fatally flawed blade polished. Yes..some swords will paper with hagire, but they are in the National Treasure league, where there are few extant examples in better condition. Very very rare blades.

In this case, I would enjoy it for what it is. Grey said it pretty much all.

 

Regards,

Brian

[Guest Simon Rowson]

Hi Eric,

 

One of the Japanese dealers I occasionally buy from showed me a stunning Bizen blade in a top class polish the other day.

Unfortunately, it had two whopping big hagire and, despite him telling me several times that "It would have easily passed Juyo without these", I just thought what a waste of money paying for such a good polish on such a knackered blade.

 

I trust I've made my point.

 

Simon

[Ed Harbulak]

I can't tell from the photos exactly where on the blade the hagiri is located. IF the hagiri is very near the hamachi, IF you really like the blade and IF money is of little concern, you MIGHT be able to have the blade shortened to make it into a wak and enjoy what's left of it that way. The signature looks like it might be O.K. (I didn't examine it that closely) so it might even be possible to get it papered as a wak. Again, depending on exactly where the hagiri is located and if shortening the blade to eliminate the hagiri would leave a blade of reasonable lenght. Otherwise, just enjoy it for what it is and don't put any more money into it.

Ed Harbulak

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

Ed's suggestion make me wonder if it is still possible nowaday to shorten

a blade maintaining the original Mei, i.e. if Orikaseshi/Gakumei practice

is still applied. Pics of eventual present days made examples would be

great.

[pcfarrar]

Looks like the hagire is about 2/3 of the way up so all you would have left is a tanto.

 

I believe some of the better polishers can hide hagire by forcing the metal over it. But that sort of expense would not be cost effective on this sword.

[EricM]

thx for your advice

too bad i can't get a paper so i'll leave it like that

it is the sharpest blade i collected so far as tadahiro was a o wazamono smith

[mike yeon]

The first and second hizen tadahiro are very big name smiths. So as with all big names, consider gimei until proven innocent. There are later generations that aren't as highly rated.

 

If you want to make the effort, you can submit to the upcoming chicago NTHK shinsa. It'll cost you much less than if you were sending it to Japan for the NBTHK papers.

 

Usually on the pink sheet (you will get pinked for the hagire) and the shinsa-in will explain why you got pinked. Hopefully they will comment on the signature as well. Sometimes, if time permitting, you can talk to the judges about your blade (if you show up in person).

 

If it turns out to be one of the big name guys, it'll certainly warrent second thoughts about restoration. Many folks on this forum will agree papers are not the end all with blades. I for one would love to study a blade made by the 1st gen tadahiro or any juyo level smith for that matter for the tuition of $3000 or so.

 

good luck

 

mike

[w.y.chan]

Its been said the 3rd gen Tadayoshi is superior then the 2nd and may have been responsible for the better quality swords by the 2nd gen as daisaku. Possibly for that reason some claim that the 8th gen might have an edge over the 2nd gen.

Some debate that the 3rd might be above the 1st gen in skill.