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New member - need advise on potential sword purchase

Corucia

By Corucia
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Corucia Contributor

Corucia

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Dear all, I'm a newly registered member and fairly new to sword collecting in general. I wanted to solicit the opinions of the experts on this site with regard to an old tachi I'm considering purchasing. The tachi is the second sword listed on the following site http://japansword.art.coocan.jp/

 

The sword has Nbthk tokubetsu Hozon papers and Nbthk attributed the sword to Fujishima Tomoshige, a smith during the Oei period. The seller indicates that Tomoshige was a rai school smith and he believes that this particular Tomoshige was second generation. The seller has posted several pictures of the sword which can be seen via click through on the above link. Note, the quality of the pics isn't high and it is difficult to make out the details of the hamon and boshi. The seller also claims that the tang is original/unshortened although I'm puzzled by the second hole and it's placement

 

In any case, I would welcome the boards insight on this sword as I have been looking for a high quality tachi for some time and this sword looks quite nice but with some questionable attributes. Thoughts and feedback are very welcome. Many thanks,

 

Eric

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Grey Doffin Grand Master

Grey Doffin

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Hi Eric,

Here's what I think I know. Tomoshige was a smith of the Fujishima school, which may be descended from the Rai school but isn't the same (big difference in value). Fujishima work can be quite nice; I like what I've seen. What the pictures show me of the hada looks to be just fine and I would hope that the seller would disclose any loose or open grain. Nothing can be seen of the hamon or boshi. Looks like a very heavy hadori polish, which is disguising any activity. It probably is better in real life than in pictures. The length of this sword is nice (long tends to be more valuable) and I also am puzzled by the placement of the 2nd mekugi-ana on a supposedly ubu blade (but most anything can happen; there are no 100% rules).

The mounts appear to be so-so and in good condition.

Tokubetsu Hozon is a decent paper to have; nothing to be ashamed of. If it weren't for the paper I would be leery of the disguised hamon, but the sword wouldn't get the paper if it had a serious problem.

Price doesn't seem too far out of line. That's between you and the seller any way.

And now others can chime in and tell you how wrong I am.

Hope this helps. Grey

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runagmc Mentor

runagmc

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The hamon going off the blade right behind the ha machi is an indicator here of an ubu nakago (even if the real hamon is hidden by hadori in the pics). Mekugi ana can have strange looking placements for any number of reasons, the main one most likely being that it was just a convenient place to put it during remounting. It's not at all uncommon to find mekugiana that look to be carelessly placed.

 

Edit: just to be clear, I know the hamon going off the blade right behind the ha machi does not necessarily mean the nakago is ubu, but it's one point to look for... along with consistent yasurime and acceptable length and shape of nakago for the attributed maker. Anything that might point to an alteration must be considered (other than mekugi ana)...

 

This looks ubu to me, but I welcome other opinions for consideration...

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Corucia Contributor

Corucia

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Thanks for the insights Grey and Adam. I'm still in the learning phase and appreciate the feedback. As you noted, I think a/the major point of concern for me is the lack of visible temper line due to all of the polish/ "make up" on the hamon, which isn't really that clear either. Also, its tough to tell if the hamon is actually continuous over the full blade and there could be anything under it as the pics the seller posted dont reveal much. I've asked for additional pics so we'll see what he sends. Separately, I've posted a note on the translation site to see if someone can translate the Nbthk paper the seller has posted. in any case, appreciate the insights and any additional thoughts from the forum.

 

Eric

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uwe Veteran

uwe

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Dear all, I'm a newly registered member and fairly new to sword collecting in general..........

And you`re sure to spend about 11k for your possibly first sword :roll:

Apart from that, Grey and Adam pointed out all material respects about this (admitted nice) blade.

Good luck

Uwe

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Corucia Contributor

Corucia

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Ken, Uwe,

 

Thanks for the notes. While I'm relatively new to the sword community, this wouldnt be my first sword as I have picked up two swords recently. One is a very fine condition (but unpapered) wakizashi signed bishu osfune samitsu and dated February 1410. Very nice sword whose hamon has strong notare ha and lots of nice activity as well as healthy boshi. The other is an unsigned koto tachi, likely from circa 1300-1320. It has seen many polishes and has some grain openings but it retains its classic tachi shape, is in nice polish and still has full boshi and a fairly well defined hamon.

 

I've been looking for an investment grade old tachi from either the Kamakura or nanbokucho period and the sword above comes close to fitting the bill with what I've been looking for in terms of quality, shape/characteristics and nbthk papers (tokubetsu Hozon / tokubetsu kicho grade). Still, this would be a meaningfully higher purchase price vs what I have historically spent thus far and there were enough questions in my mind about this particular sword that I wanted to reach out to this community (which is very well regarded) for some opinions.

 

Hope that clarifies things and again appreciate all the views/opinions.

 

Eric

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Ray Singer Grand Master

Ray Singer

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Hi Eric, at this price range you have a lot of options. This seems somewhat expensive for a mumei, Muromachi period sword. If your goal is, as you stated, to locate a Nambokucho or earlier piece, then it may be worthwhile to be patient and continue looking. There was quite a nice late Kamakura Enju tachi, healthy and flawless, that recently sold on Aoi Art for not a great deal more than this sword.

 

- Ray

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Corucia Contributor

Corucia

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Thanks Ray. Appreciate your insight. I'm not in a rush to buy something so I may indeed hold off on this sword.

 

Grey, here are som pics of the wakizashi I picked up (see kink below). Checked the original details and the smith was identified as samitsu by the seller. Perhaps translation is wrong. Pics include images of the tang and mei so perhaps someone can translate the signature. Many thanks again to all for the feedback.

 

Erin

 

https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=ed25d028 ... 89C4%21852

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Corucia Contributor

Corucia

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Jean, I can email you a number of detailed pics of my sword and would welcome your insights. Also feel free to post any of the pics I send for reference. I'm about th head out for a business trip but will try to send some pics before going wheels-up or after I touch down. Many thanks,

 

Eric

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drbvac Mentor

drbvac

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Eric:

 

 

All very nice and although as someone else stated for the price you may be able to get a better tachi - I am interested in your comment "investment grade" and having heard and even thought along those lines for many years I am wondering what it means to you. I have never personally bought any collectible with a mind to either making any money or selling within a short period of time. It always seems the only ones that are an "investment" that will surely appreciate are the ones that are diamonds in the rough - purchased for next to nothing and then either polished or sent to shinsa and in the end worth more than paid for. These are getting very scarce and the way the economy is now I am not so sure that even very high grade nihonto are holding their value as most items are worth what you can get for them in a very short period of time,

 

If this seems like I have hijacked the original intent of the thread any of the moderators can send it to another post - I really do wonder how many "non-dealers" actually "invest' in their collectables. 50% mark-up to sell and 50% mark down when buying makes for a lot of space in between to get back original investments !

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cabowen Grand Master

cabowen

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Many years ago Prof. Arnold Frenzel, then a professor of Economics at Waterloo University (my apologies to Arnold if I have that wrong) wrote a treatise on the viability of Nihonto as an investment vehicle which was published in the JSS-US Art and the Sword journal. The upshot, as I recall, was that unless you were extremely knowledgeable, Nihon-to make a very poor investment.

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runagmc Mentor

runagmc

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Forget the mei and focus on the hada and the hamon. Do they match what we know about Morimitsu? I would like to see some pictures of the hada :) Now, does the mei was always on the nakago hiraji for Morimitsu?

 

Jean, your absolutely right, but in this case we were just discussing the proper translation of the mei, not trying to confirm it's authenticity...

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Corucia Contributor

Corucia

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Brian/Chris, to the points you've made, perhaps I chose my words imprecisely. I've been a collector of a variety of antique/collectible classes for over 30 years, dating back to my youth when my father would take me to large and small house auction houses to bid on the antique classes he began collecting in the 1940s after the war -- European furniture, European paintings, chineses and egyptian antiquities, etc. I inherited my dad's appreciation for art ans antiques as well as his collecting bug and over time expanded the horizons of his collection focus to include american federal and empire furniture, ethnographic/African art, watches and other stuff.

 

Japanese swords is a fairly new category to me but I'm slowly learning what to look for and hope to build a collection of fine quality swords that I can pass onto my kids. Perhaps the term I should have used is heirloom quality instead of investment quality, which would be more appropriate to my collecting style. As I've never sold any piece/collectible I've yet acquired, and still own the vast majority of my fathers collection which dates back in some cases almost 70 years, I'd like to find the best quality pieces that I can reasonably afford and enjoy their presence in my home. Make sense?

 

Eric

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Corucia Contributor

Corucia

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Jean, per your post, I sent you a bunch of pics of my wakizashi, including some detailed shots of the hamon and hada (i couldn't manage to post directly to the site from my iPad) They hopefully give you a better sense to judge if the sword might be something special. Feel free to post any of the pics if you like -- opinions and insight are much appreciated.

 

Eric

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