Gendai?

[CurtisR]

Just purchased this pair of Menuki - they were sold as Gendai, but the patina seems a bit older. Just looking for thoughts on possible age - I also found that the kanji was unusual for menuki I've seen, so any opinions on that would be welcome as well, Regardless, I like them and enjoy their unique design. Very heavy, and Shakudo,

 

Thanks,

 

Curt R.

[christianmalterre]

Dear Curt,

 

i am sorry to say this-but,at least in mine eyes,those are(as you say)Gendai if not even worse.

The cast is of very low quality,the walls are clumpsy,the patination is an fake-and the core material is copper or an copper-base alloy.

Shakudo would not spot out yellowish when there´s abrasive of the patina-equally an shakudo patination would look different.

Equally you see cisel marks on the face-surface which,in case of an old one-would very certainly not ashine in this manner.

An cast reproduction!

The Originals those here were copied from,are depicted in the Behrens collection-as far(equally) also in one article by Robert Burawoy in the Arts of Asia.

 

(i will have an look so to send you an photocopy of those published ones-it´s just that today i´m a bit busy...passion so far)

 

Christian

[CurtisR]

Thanks Christian - it is better to know the truth! I suspected they were Gendai, but as you outlined the flaws I can see exactly what issues you describe . I need to get better reference books and study more. Fortunately I didn't pay a huge amount for them but still disappointing.

 

And yes, if you can send a link (or PM, or whatever wors best for you) or the original published ones, I'd very much appreciate it - ah well, back to the studying!

 

I suppose I can always wrap them onto an Iaito .

 

Best Regards,

 

Curt R.

[Curran]

I saw a set in Japan for auction, and they went for about $350-400. I was not sure if they were moderns, but thought they were youngish. Then I saw similar ones on ebay not long ago.

 

I recently was loaned a nidai Norisuke tsuba which is one of the best two I've seen outside of the best of the best in the old books. It had the buddhist prayer of your menuki scrolling across it like a screen saver. Excellent tsuba that I doubt the owner will ever sell to me or anyone else unless he's wearing a toe tag.

 

Gendai or not, I think em and would have bought them if I owned the matching tsuba. Owner of tsuba won't allow images of it, so you must be content knowing there is exists really good matching tsuba. I can confirm the tsuba is c. 1860s due to the name the nidai used in signing then.

 

Hope that helps a bit. I am away for a while, so cannot recall and look up my notes on which Buddhist sect prayer it is. A very main one.... , yet my knowledge of Japanese Buddhism would barely fill a coffee cup.

[CurtisR]

I'd love to see that Tsuba Curran, but understand that the owner probably is very protective of it. The Buddhist prayer stars with "Nam"....I looke dit up and will post the rest when I get back to the house where it's written down - I do like 'em; just sad that the work (as Christian noted and I can now see clearly) isn't better. My cost was $150.00, which isn't inexpensive but I won't lose sleep over it.

 

As a side question, when going to shows and sales, do most of "you" carry a loupe to examine Tsuba, blades, menuki, etc? I'm thinking I will get a small one to carry but don't want to be insulting or off-puting to the sellers either.

 

Happy Friday!

 

Curt R.

[Rich S]

Curtis -

 

Yes, when I was attending shows I always carried and used a jewelers loop to examine fittings. No legit seller should ever have a problem with someone doing that. Of course always ask before picking up anything from a sellers table.

 

Rich S

[Bruno]

Second photo looks like : NA N MYO HO

 

A Buddah phrase?

[Ray Singer]

Nam Myoho Renge Kyo. I would love to find a set with this motif, as my wife is a Nichiren Buddhist and this is the mantra which is chanted.

 

 

 

And BTW, keep me in mind if you decide to sell them later. I always keep my eye open for kodogu with this theme, yet always seem to just miss them when they come up for sale. Gendai or not, they would be of interest...

[Bruno]

The first menuki is related to Lotus flower?

[CurtisR]

Yes, Raymond has it dead-on...Nam Myoho Renge Kyo is the translation...I found a decent write-up of the meanings here (for Bruno):

 

http://www.sgi.org/buddhism/sgis-buddhist-practice/nam-myoho-renge-kyo.html

 

I do like them and they're unusual (so you may have to wait a bit for this pair Raymond :D )but would still love to see the pics of the originals...and thanks for the heads-up on taking along a loupe and will be doing that. Now I just need to learn more!

 

Curt R.

[Grey Doffin]

I have a question. Not trying to tear down this set of menuki; I'm honestly puzzled.

Are these even real menuki? The picture of the back side makes them look like they were cast in one piece. The posts and attachments are the same material as the rest; wouldn't we expect them to be somewhat different?

Are these cast copies?

Grey

[CurtisR]

Grey, it is the lighting/shadow I believe...the 'fins' on the posts are attached separately to the body, if that helps clarify? It does appear to be the same metal, but they weren't cast with the body from what I can tell through a 4x loupe. The are also almost black in color, but the direct sunlight makes them appear more silver-ish. I have a decent pair of Edo Persimmon menuki, and the posts appear to be attached in the same (or similar) way.

 

 

I'm of course open to others' opinions as well about this question....

 

 

Curt R.

[Curran]

Raymond to the rescue. I couldn't remember.

 

Raymond, if the aforementioned collector with the nidai Norisuke ever puts it on the market- I'll try to remember to let you know. Tsuba was pretty awesome with the mantra spooling across it multiple times at different angles and wrapping around the mimi. On the backside was a poem in grass script that I could not translate.

[Soshin]

Hi Everyone,

 

I remember reading that some of the early Saotome tsuba also had mantra motifs of the Nichiren-shu on there surface. The Nidai Norisuke tsuba discussed above would be really great to take a look at. Now for the more on topic comments. Mounting this menuki set on a Gendaito sounds like a good idea. Overall they don't look like a bad reproduction and were made in modern Japan (i.e. Gendai).

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[Ray Singer]

Thank you Curran. I would love to even see photos if the piece ever passes through your hands again. Tsuruta had one that also had the mantra done on the same writing style of the original Gohonzon text, but it sold almost instantly. I thought it may have been Umetada. Also worth passing on for reference was the shodai Tadayoshi which Fred sold at auction:

 

http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/LotD ... ID=5253794

 

I had often wondered if these pieces which copied the writing so faithfully were treated as Gozonhon by their owners, as the literal object of devotion during their chanting.

[Ed]

This topic has been discussed a couple of times here in the past and should be accessible in the archives.

 

I sold a tanto with this mantra carved on the shirasaya.

If you care to take a look at it:

http://yakiba.com/tanto_enju.htm

 

"NAMU MYOHO RENGE KYO" . This is a prayer used by the Nichiren Buddhist Sect, and also the Sokugakkai, which is a religious and political party in Japan. It's meaning is basically as follows:

 

Namu Myōhō Renge Kyō - 南無妙法蓮華経; Devotion to the Law of the Lotus Flower Scripture) is a mantra that is chanted as the central practice of all forms of Nichiren Buddhism. The mantra is referred to as Daimoku (題目, title; also, in some schools, O-daimoku: お題目) and was first revealed by the Japanese Buddhist teacher Nichiren on the 28th day of the fourth lunar month of AD 1253 at Kiyomizu-dera (also, Seichōji) near Kominato in current-day Chiba, Japan. The practice of chanting the daimoku is called shōdai (唱題). The purpose of chanting daimoku is to attain perfect and complete awakening (enlightenment).

 

Namu: The words na and mu derive from Sanskrit. A close translation of its meaning is "to devote oneself". Nichiren established the practice of chanting Nam-myoho-renge-kyo as a means to enable all people to put their lives in harmony or rhythm with the law of life, or Dharma. In the original Sanskrit, nam indicates the elements of action and attitude, and refers therefore to the correct action one needs to take and the attitude one needs to develop in order to attain Buddhahood in this lifetime.

 

Myoho: Myoho literally means the Mystic Law, and expresses the relationship between the life inherent in the universe and the many different ways this life expresses itself. Myo refers to the very essence of life, the mystic law which is "invisible" and beyond intellectual understanding.

 

Renge: Renge means lotus flower. The lotus blooms and produces seeds at the same time, and thus represents the simultaneity of cause and effect. The circumstances and quality of our individual lives are determined by the causes and effects, both good and bad, that we accumulate (through our thoughts, words and actions) at each moment. This is called our "karma." The law of cause and effect explains that we each have personal responsibility for our own destiny. We create our destiny and we can change it. The lotus flower grows and blooms in a muddy pond, and yet remains pristine and free from any defilement, symbolizing the emergence of Buddhahood from within the life of an ordinary person.

 

Kyo: Kyo literally means sutra, the voice or teaching of a Buddha. In this sense, it also means sound, rhythm or vibration.

 

"When deluded, one is called an ordinary human being, but when enlightened, one is called a Buddha. This is similar to a tarnished mirror that will shine like a jewel when polished. A mind now clouded by the illusions of the innate darkness of life is like a tarnished mirror, but when polished, it is sure to become like a clear mirror, reflecting the essential nature of phenomena and the true aspect of reality. Arouse deep faith, and diligently polish your mirror day and night. How should you polish it? Only by chanting Nam-myoho-renge-kyo."

 

—Nichiren, On Attaining Buddhahood in This Lifetime

[CurtisR]

Curran and Ed ~

Thank you for posting those photos...amazing blades and craftsmanship! I think it's very interesting that the chant/mantra is associated so closely with Nihonto, and it has quite a few centuries of history behind it. So much to learn....but what fun, yes??

 

Best,

 

Curt R.

[Soshin]

This topic has been discussed a couple of times here in the past and should be accessible in the archives.

 

I sold a tanto with this mantra carved on the shirasaya.

If you care to take a look at it:

http://yakiba.com/tanto_enju.htm

 

"NAMU MYOHO RENGE KYO" . This is a prayer used by the Nichiren Buddhist Sect, and also the Sokugakkai, which is a religious and political party in Japan.

Hi Ed,

 

Nice write up about the significance of the mantra which is the design of the menuki. The mantra has been the focus of tosogu and koshirae since the Muromachi Period. I do remember seeing on the Yamabushi website a whole koshirae focus on Nichiren Buddhist designs a few years ago. It has long since been sold. This mantra is central to the practice of Nichiren Buddhism. One minor point which I can nitpick is that political party Sokugakkai is only associated with the Nichiren Shōshū (日蓮正宗) and not Nichiren Buddhism as a whole. I hope everyone finds the additional information helpful.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[Curran]

I think I got undeserved credit for Raymond's posting of a related image link.

 

ED,

That is a very nice write up. I intend to save it down to my records, as it is better than the ones I came across on the web.

 

Raymond:

If I can convince the owner to bring it to Tampa, I will. He's overly secretive and protective, but at the same time a good guy willing to share generously who are serious in a particular interest.