What the Gunto is it?

[bmlusk1911]

I recently picked up this Gunto and wanted to poll the forum's thoughts.

 

It was a "Vet Bringback" but I believe it's an amalgam of a Type 3 Saya, a Type 94 / 98 Tsuka and koshirae, a Type 94 / 98 tsuba (for a leather strap,) and a machine made blade.

 

The only theories I have is:

 

1.) It was a piecemeal sword assembled in wartime.

2.) It was put together from the "best" pieces by a vet before coming to the U.S.

3.) I may have paid a part of my tuition.

 

v/r

 

Brock

 

 

 

 

 

[bmlusk1911]

Photos of the blade.

[David Flynn]

It's definitely a put together. Who knows when this occurred or Why? Not really worth the effort of investigating.

[Grey Doffin]

Or maybe even a Chinese fake. Nothing is right about it. I agree with David: move on.

Grey

[bmlusk1911]

I figured it was something along those lines. It just seemed a bit nice for a "Chinese" copy....

 

Does anyone have any clues about the "stamp?" It looked to me like a partial Seki or a tiny "To" stamp like those found on some Type 95 NCO swords, although it lacked a serial number.

[george trotter]

Hi Brock,

Yes that is the "to" stamp of the Tokyo arsenal system. It does appear to be made of pieces, but perhaps not as bad as you think. I have seen these blades before, they "look" like nco blades but are tempered with a hamon and do not have the crude finish or numbers etc. Perhaps senior warrant officers or something. I have seen them 2 or 3 times, always in Type 98 mounts. Maybe yours has had a Type 3 scabbard added and has been rebound. Still, not really a desireable nihonto or even a desireable gunto in that condition...sorry.

regards,

[bmlusk1911]

I figured as much, but it was a bizarre enough combination to peak my novice interest. I didn't see a hamon on the blade, but might take a second look just for curiosity's sake....

[Kiipu]

Going back to the machine made blade.  Clearly the blade was modified from its original configuration to fit the renewed "fittings".  It is either a Type 95 [九五式] or a zōheitō [造兵刀] blade.  It still has a visible 東 inspection mark on the obverse side.  Does anyone have any thoughts about which blade was used?  Also, could the size or location of the mekugi-ana [目釘孔] (tang hole) be used to tell the difference between the two?

 

Attention: @BANGBANGSAN, @Bruce Pennington, & @Stegel and in alphabetical order no less.

[Bruce Pennington]

IMHO (first time I've used that acronym!)  It's zoheito.  Nakago is too long for kyu; long enough for 95 but wrong shape and only 1 hole; bohi goes too deeply into the kissaki for a 95.  Pluse the "to" stamp is classic for a zoheito. 

[Stephen]

Worthless time warp!

[BANGBANGSAN]

1 hour ago, Bruce Pennington said:

IMHO (first time I've used that acronym!)  It's zoheito.  Nakago is too long for kyu; long enough for 95 but wrong shape and only 1 hole; bohi goes too deeply into the kissaki for a 95.  Pluse the "to" stamp is classic for a zoheito. 

I agree, it looks like later war 造兵刀 instead of early ones. @Kiipu

 

[Stegel]

+ 1  

zohei to IMO

[Kiipu]

Thanks for the help everyone and a zōheitō [造兵刀] blade it is then.

[Kolekt-To]

And we saw a Zoheito blade, albeit in nice Type 98 mounts, sell for around $2000.00 on an auction side recently. It was discussed on a thread on this board about a month ago, if my memory is correct. Apparently, some find value in these examples.

[PNSSHOGUN]

The value was not so much in the fact it is a Zohei-To blade but the condition of the sword. There is little value in a piece above, beyond the individual parts value.

[Bruce Pennington]

1 hour ago, PNSSHOGUN said:

There is little value in a piece above

John, I feel your view is coming from a guy that valued High Quality Gendaito and their appropriate fittings.    "Value", as all of us know in Sword-Collecting-World, is set by the tastes of the group that are interested in each item.  I think $650 for a 1963 Spiderman comic book is ludicrous, but I don't have any interest in comic books.  I would also never spend $10,000 on a nihonto - I could get 5 great WWII gunto for that!!!  You know that some of us enjoy the late-war stuff.  You also know, because we at NMB have had this discussion multiple times, the point I'm making about taste.  So, what I don't know, is why you're, to all appearances, acting like you don't know all this. ??? Love you, dude, but this is not why we are here.  I don't look down on your interests. 

[PNSSHOGUN]

Hi Bruce, there is little historical value would be more accurate in a put together piece like this. Once the originality is gone you are really just left with the monetary value of the individual pieces, or any unique features they hold by themselves. Not trying to look down on anyone's specific interest, but if they aren't original pieces there's little take away except identifying post war meddling for future reference.

[Kiipu]

My interest was in determining what the blade was and really did not want to discuss the sword.  With that said, I agree with John.  The ito wrap is completely wrong for an army sword.  I do not know if this was put together immediately after the war by an allied serviceman or by a dealer or collector at a later date.  To determine the value of this sword, just add up the value of the individual component parts and then subtract the cost of an ito wrap.  At the end of the day, I could be completely wrong, but that is my take until some more show up and then I get mud in the face!

[Bruce Pennington]

@PNSSHOGUN - John - Big apologies!  I'm brain-dead from 3 straight days of almost no sleep (wife in hospital.  All is well and back home now).  I thought I was on the Late war gunto discussion thread. 

[PNSSHOGUN]

No worries Bruce, no offense taken. Glad to hear all is well at home.

[BANGBANGSAN]

9 hours ago, Kolekt-To said:

And we saw a Zoheito blade, albeit in nice Type 98 mounts, sell for around $2000.00 on an auction side recently. It was discussed on a thread on this board about a month ago, if my memory is correct. Apparently, some find value in these examples.

As a 造兵刀&NCO sword lover, I've been observing the price for many years(also bought many), like John said that 造兵刀 sold for$2000 was all because it's the minty condition, so does the recent two mint condition Type 95 sold for over 2K, keep that in mind, the regular condition ones will NOT be sell for that kind of price.

[Stephen]

It was eleven years ago, hopefully someone melted the Frankenstein 👎👇👇 fncking nuts on that POS.