Yamashiro Kuni, Fujiwara Need Assistance with the rest

[wkumatt]

My wife and I discovered this wakizashi in her grandfathers things that her grandmother was throwing out. We know he served in WWII in occupied Japan and we suspect this is a mass produced souvenir. That said it still serves as a momento that our children might like someday. In that regard I'd like to pass along as much information as I can. Thanks in advance if you all are able to provide any additional information.

I forwarded these photos to a friend who works for a Japanese automaker, his coworkers provided the translation listed in the title. They believe the first Kanji say the sword was made in Yamashiro Kuni and the smith had the title or rank of Fujiwara (Is this a high or low rank?). There are also marks on the habaki they did not respond to. I think the middle kanji on the habaki is "month" and I suspect the one above it might indicate December. I would love to know the correct translation of the full mei, as well as what the habaki says.

I believe the habaki, tsuba, and fuchi are made of copper and coated with lacquer and plated with brass or gold. Probably brass. Length of blade tip to tsuba ~20.5" and overalll ~26.5".

Any other info or resources I should read are also greatly appreciated. http://www.flickr.com//photos/42682820@N07/show/

[cabowen]

The blade is signed "Yamashiro no Kami Fujiwara Kunikane"

 

Yamashiro no Kami is a title, Fujiwara a clan name, Kunikane the smith's name.

 

The fuchi is signed "Kiyosada".

 

Others will fill in the blanks....

[John A Stuart]

Likely one of the two smiths 2nd gen 1646-61 or 3rd gen. 1680-95 from Rikusen Oshu (Sendai). John

[wkumatt]

Wow! You gentleman are fast! My associates are native Japanese and they couldn't figure out more than a little of this. Just so I'm clear, you all believe this sword is almost 400 years old and might have been made by this gentleman? http://nihontoclub.com/smiths/KUN307 If so, this is no souvenir blade then is it?

[Jacques]

Hi,

 

Nidai Kunikane (if mei is legit)

[John A Stuart]

Father or son would require research on the blade attributes and signature to determine if legitimate which it was. Not a tourist piece it may be safely assumed. the fittings are nice as well. John

[Curran]

Yes, the fittings are decent.

If there was a matching kashira with that fuchi, I'd buy them to go with a tsuba I have.

 

The tsuba has a seppa dai crack and patina damage to the 'shakudo' (look that term up, think of it as gold-copper that pickles black when the mix is right). Don't rest metal on the tsuba. If in proper condition, in would be worth more than just pocket change.

 

Hard to believe this was being considered to throw out as a souvenir item. Given the amount of junk we field here that guests assume is valuable, it is different to have someone come in with some okay stuff and think it is junk.

 

By the way, that is gold. Not brass.

[wkumatt]

I don't know what to say. This is very surprising, I'm a member of the thehighroad.org where we discuss firearms to minute detail, but there are no firearms this vintage in the hands of message board users. I originally posted this question there and I was quickly referred to this board.

 

I'm completely out of my element. Please forgive my ignorance and I don't mean to disparage the artist, but we thought it was very garish looking wich is why we assumed it was produced for tourists. I know that it has been in the same house since the 1950's so if it is fake, it was faked before then.

 

Now that it is translated should I consider a new post in another forum? Or is there someway to move this thread?

 

I have a very well equipped shop, mostly for gunsmithing, are there tests or procedures or pictures I can provide the members here to help ascertain the authenticity of the item?

 

If this is the typical amazing response this group is capable of in a couple of hours, I can't imagine what you all could teach me in a day!

 

I'll also seek a preservation thread, I'm sure you all have one, so that I can prevent any further degradation.

[John A Stuart]

It's a small treasure. Hit this link and scroll for all the basics you should need. http://www.nihontomessageboard.com/faq.html John

[Grey Doffin]

Hi, name please,

Here is a link to a care and etiquette brochure you need to read:http://www.nbthk-ab.org/Etiquette.htm

Resist all temptation to fix anything on this sword; don't clean, polish, sharpen, adjust, or do anything. Amateur restoration often leads to ruin. If the pin through the hole in handle and blade is missing you do need to replace it soon (use a bamboo chopstick); otherwise do nothing.

If we could see more pictures of the blade we might be able to tell you more. What is the length of the cutting edge, from the point to the notch at the back of the blade in a straight line?

If this is a forged signature it would have happened long ago. Just like with old oil paintings, there have been forged signatures on swords for centuries. Even if it is thought to be a forgery, it can still be a valuable sword.

Congratulations; a quite nice piece (not garish).

Grey

[wkumatt]

Hello again,

My name is Matt, I haven't quite gotten proficient with your board and I'm not sure how to add that at the bottom of my posts. I understand what a troll is. Someone who seeks to rile up a message board with a ludicrous or outlandish tale meant to incite the members. I also realize that this continuing narrative must seem that way to some of you. I understand but I can do nothing but assure you that I continue to be greatful for your information and I'm as truthful with the information that I've offered as I can be.

 

I've taken additional photos and you can view them here, http://www.flickr.com//photos/42682820@ ... 7533/show/

 

About the photos: all measurements are in english (inches) the blade is difficult to photo but the darkening toward the tip is not because of the camera, the blade is very dark and more crusty toward the end.

 

Once again my continued thanks, you all have opened my eyes to a world I didn't know existed and my wife and I are greatful for all the information you have proveded.

[runagmc]

Here's a pic of the 2nd gen Kunikane,

 

It looks like a pretty good match from the pics. The fittings look pretty high quality too. If this sword is genuine and was restored it could be worth several thousand dollars. Hard to say exactly how much but it would be quite a bit. Alot depends on the generation...

 

Congrats and... I'm jealous...

 

PS, you can just sign your post at the bottom manually for now...

[runagmc]

Just for your info here's a discussion involving some issues with sendai kunikane...

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=11083

[wkumatt]

Should I PM Mr. Blood regarding this sword? Is this one of the lineage he'd be interested in seeing?

 

I'm discovering that searching the internet without a firm footing in what I'm looking for regarding this is close to useless.

 

Many thanks again for the continued support.

[Brian]

It is a nice looking sword, in need of restoration. Even if the signature is gimei, in Nihonto that doesn't mean the sword is a bad one. This one looks worth some attention. Dr Bleed is the expert in this line of smiths, so perhaps he will have an opinion on the mei.

As is, still a nice item with very nice fittings. Habaki is unusual, but nicely done.

PS - Looks like we are picking up a bit of a following from THR, GT and Arfcom

 

Brian

[Grey Doffin]

Hi Matt,

A 20" wakizashi. Hard to tell much about the blade from your photos because of light corrosion; it will likely need to be seen in hand by someone who knows before much more can be learned. Do not try to clean off the corrosion.

Do you live in The States; which state? Dr. Bleed is the top Sendai specialist in the West; he's also honest (except at the poker table) and quite likeable. I'll email him so he knows about this thread. I bet he has something to add to the discussion.

Grey

[wkumatt]

Hello again,

 

First my apologies to Dr. Bleed for changing his name for him in a previous post. I am in the United States in Bowling Green, Kentucky, roughly 60 miles North of Nashville, TN. I am very interested to know of someone within a reasonable distance of me that could evaluate the sword and let us know more about. I would be willing to travel to meet such a person.

 

I understand from reading past posts that there is a high reverence for these swords from the members here. I fear I'll dissapoint many of you when I tell you that I am fairly certain the blade has been very badly damaged. The origin of the black color torward the point of the sword was revealed by my father-in-law to be the result of him putting the sword into a coal fire as a child so he could use the heated metal to decorate (brand) wood. Please understand that as a child he believed the piece to be a "ceremonial sword" not a real one.

 

I'm not sure of the correct term for this, but when any metal is heated, especially if in the white, the oxidation results in a rainbow pattern of colors appearing in the metal especially in the area where the metal gets cooler. That coloring appears in this blade roughly 12" toward the Tsuba. The hamon doesn't appear that I can see for few more inches beyond this.

 

I did read an article that said it may be possible to restore the hamon (retemper the sword) in this type of situation however the author indicated it likely wasn't worth it. What can you all tell me about this situation? Is the blade completely undesirable now? Or does it maintain a small value just for the signature (if genuine)?

 

I've spent some time searching for information regarding the Tsuba, and fuchi as well, the only kiyosada refernces I can find are 100 years later than the possible smiths identified for this blade. A tip to head me in the right direction would be very much appreciated.

 

Once again thank you all very much for your time, I've found the research I've done based on what you all have told me to be vastly enlightening.

 

Regards,

Matt P.

[John A Stuart]

When the blade was made is irrelevent to the tosougu artist, as the koshirae are frequently changed over time. This looks like Kaga Goto work of Kanazawa. It may be Ebei or Seizaemon. You would need to see examples of their work and determine which seems to most resemble this work. The sword blade itself has likely been ruined and may be repaired by a new quench and tempering, but, would be saiha and extremely devalued as to that part. A shame really. John

[Brian]

I can hear the collective screams of a hundred collectors

Yeah, the blade and value are pretty much ruined. Retempering is not a practical option, and your hamon is almost certainly broken. That is pretty sad. Most of your value will now lie in the fittings.

 

Brian

[Curran]

Fittings:

 

I haven't tried to check the signature on the fuchi.

On the tsuba, I lean towards classification as Kyo-kanegushi. That is a demotion from Kaga Goto, as I don't find the work as precise in its repetition as I do Kaga Goto. However it is not a huge demotion, and it is a nice piece. It can probably be restored. That habaki is rather unique and a little artwork unto itself.

 

Yes, the sword is probably toasted, but there are those here who would still be interested in it for reasons of study or restoration practice.

 

You certainly aren't a troll, as you've quickly evidenced a good bit of knowledge how forums like this work and transferred a good bit of knowledge over. On some level, I wish the Nihonto bug bites you and you stay and learn a bit more.

Don't clean those fittings with anything other than mild soap and a very mild brush. At this point, it is probably better to wait for others. Treat them as akin to jewelry.

[Alan Morton]

Matt,

Search the house where this sword was stored high and low for the other fitting

off the handle, they just might be somewhere around and would be an absolute

bonus. You never know.

 

Alan.

[wkumatt]

Gentlemen,

Thank you once again for all the information you all have provided. And Curran thank you for your kind words. I'll admint the Nihonto bug does seem catching I've been fascinated by what little I've learned about these smiths and the works they've accomplished. However, I already follow several great smiths in my collecting activities, men like John Browning, Eugene Stoner,and Mikhail Kalashnikov. Thus I don't have the extra time nor funds to begin pursuing a new obsession at this point in my life.

 

Alan, we have looked through everything at the house and have no more of the missing pieces to add to the sword, the rest seems to be forever lost.

 

I was hoping some others might comment on the sword but I've been researching on my own as well I can. A friend of a friend's father is a sword referee or judge on a sword jury in Osaka Pref. This is his description, I think something is lost in the english translation of the phrase. He has examined the photos and believes it is real.

 

Below is a direct quote from his email,

 

Constructer is 2nd generation KUNIKANE "国包", producted in around 1643 (17th century).

"山城守 藤原 国包"= YAMASHIRONOKAMI FUJIWARA KUNIKANE

The constracters(father and his son) had live in Sendai-pref.

The daimyou(Japanese feudal load) was DATE MASAMUNE (very famous in Japan).

 

Character of KUNIKANE is below,

- straight metal flow line (caused by hot forgeing) = called as MASAME

- straight heat treatment line = called as SUGUBA

 

I believe this serves as extra confirmation for all you all have told me. Thanks Again.

[wkumatt]

The circumstances leading to my possession of the sword were brought about by my wife's grandmother moving to a nursing home. Her home is for sale to help cover expenses which is why the family is trying to dispense of the items inside. As the sword is rightfully theirs and they were unaware it may have value I've returned it to my wife's father and uncle. As it holds little sentimental value to anyone in the family and the Grandmother can certainly use the funds, they are very interested in determining the value. Something I've failed them at, there are too many intracacies in Nihonto as well as problems with this sword for me to make an accurate guess. I've tried to track down Tsubas for sale that I thought were close and I found this http://www.to-ken.com/meeting%20reports.htm . Which I thought was very close but not for sale.

 

I understand this forum is not for free appraisals, which is why I'm still very interested in having the sword examined by a knowledgable person within a reasonable distance of me. Does anyone have a clue where I might accomplish this?

 

Thank you all very much once again,

Matt

[Jacques]

Hi,

 

Constructer is 2nd generation KUNIKANE "国包", producted in around 1643 (17th century).

 

Since that sword has not been proven Shoshin mei, i would only say : signed "Yamashiro no Kami Fujiwara Kunikane" without any other details.

[wkumatt]

Constructer is 2nd generation KUNIKANE "国包", producted in around 1643 (17th century).

 

Since that sword has not been proven Shoshin mei, i would only say : signed "Yamashiro no Kami Fujiwara Kunikane" without any other details.

Thank you sir,

I merely copied the information from an email I received from this person. I do not mean to misrepresent anything. You are correct nothing has been proven regarding this blade, that is what I'd like to accomplish.

Thanks Again,

Matt

[cabowen]

Since by reports of the owner it was used in a fire and the hamon lost, it matters little if it is shoshin or not....

[Mark]

Matt

 

I will be visiting Louisville in December. If that is close enough i would be happy to look at it if we can get together

[Toryu2020]

I believe Nick Nakamura and Danny Massey are both based in Louisville,

There might also be someone at the Frazier with basic knowledge that could help but about that I am not certain. I would try contacting Danny thru his website. http://www.nihontocraft.com/

 

In the end might be kind of a long drive to be told what you already know...

-t (formerly of Kentucky)