My grandfather's swords

[Delivery McGee]

As a young man my grandfather, like many men his age, took an all-expenses-paid tour of the Pacific islands, courtesy of the US government. He brought back a few souvenirs -- a Type 32 saber and an officer's katana. Sadly, he died when I was 10, so I never got to ask him the story behind them, but I always liked looking at them. When my grandmother joined him this past July, I inherited the swords.

 

I posted on another militaria forum I'm a member of, asking if anybody could read/translate the markings on them (my military-history knowledge is mostly Western), and somebody suggested I show you guys.

 

I'm not ever planning to sell them, I just like knowing what all the little marks mean, and wondering whether the katana is handmade.

 

Here's a link to a gallery of all the pictures I've taken of them.

 

Here are the especially relevant pics:

 

 

The guard of the saber. The character on the lower left is also on the side of the blade ricasso opposite the serial number. I know the middle thing with the circles is an arsenal stamp.

 

The katana is harder to figure out. It definitely looks, to my untrained eye, like a proper katana:

But I've read enough on this site and others to know that most of the better factory-made ones had a hamon, and I'm not well-versed enough tell the difference.

 

This is the only marking on the blade of the katana. Nothing on the other side, and no arsenal/factory stamps anywhere. That last character is really faint, unfortunately. Click the picture for a much bigger version.

 

The only other markings on the rest of the assembly are a few things on the tsuba and spacers. Again, click picture for huge.

 

Please forgive me if I've posted in the wrong place; I was going to post this in the military forum, but since I'm mainly asking what the writing means, I thought I'd try here first. Mods, feel free to move it if necessary; to the rest of you, thanks for taking the time to read this.

[Veli]

Hello!

 

The signature of the katana might be 雲州住大明京, Unshu ju Daiminkin (Daiminkin of Unshu (Izumo) province). There were 3 generations of smiths by this name in 17th-18th century in Izumo province. They were rather respectable smiths! Please provide more photos of the blade shape with the hilt taken off, as well as of the kissaki (tip), the whole nakago (tang) and different places of hamon. Try to take a photograph of a lamplight reflection from hamon if you can. Please take care of this katana; keep it well oiled, and do not try to clean it yourself, especially the tang should be left as is.

 

This is just my guess, more knowledgeable members may confirm or correct my interpretation of the signature.

 

BR, Veli

[Brian]

Judging by the sugata, (shape) hamon and the fact that I think there is some large nie in the photo..the katana does look promising, and unlikely to be a mass produced one. Well worth investigating further. The other is an arsenal blade that is mass produced.

 

Brian

[Delivery McGee]

The other is an arsenal blade that is mass produced.

I knew that, I'm not that uneducated. :-p I've always liked cavalry sabers (possibly because of handling this one when I was little), and it's pretty nice (both in condition and aesthetics) for what it is.

 

Hello!

Please take care of this katana; keep it well oiled, and do not try to clean it yourself, especially the tang should be left as is.

Don't worry, I know about keeping things oiled, and "don't try to polish it" and "leave the rust on the tang" were among the first things I read when starting research when I got it.

 

Pictures, as requested. Please excuse the wonky color balance, my good camera is with the wife on a business trip, so I'm making do with the cheap fully-automatic point-and-shoot. For reference, the blanket used as a backdrop is powder blue.

 

Full length of the blade with everything off:

 

The whole tang:

The bit of paper stuck to it is a bit of English-language newsprint presumably used to tighten the fit in the hilt; a few more pieces fell out when I took it apart. Now the wood has shrunk and it won't go in all the way (I can't get it in far enough for the holes to line up, about 1/16" off, original mekugi is long lost), but it stays together well enough, I'm not planning on swinging it around.

 

Both sides of the point:

 

Sadly, years of storage under my grandparents' bed has allowed the last eight inches or so of the blade to get a bit rusty, but it looks like a professional polishing would save it. The first picture is much more accurate, the poor color balance in the second makes it look worse than it is.

[Delivery McGee]

Some random bits of the hamon. It's rather difficult to make the camera focus on a mirror-polished blade, but I did what I could.

 

 

 

 

 

Edit: Oh, and there's this little guy on the end of the hilt. Possibly important?

[Grey Doffin]

Hi J.

The little guy on the end of the handle is a family crest, Mon, that corresponds to the last owner's family.

There may be lumps of paper in the bottom of the handle that are stopping the blade from seating properly. Reaching in with a knitting needle or some such and tapping the handle upside down on a horizontal surface might dislodge any stuck in there. Once you know the cavity is clear place the blade in the handle, hold the sword vertical in your right hand, and tap on the bottom of the handle with your left palm. This should get the blade where it belongs. It is very important that the pin (mekugi) is through the hole in handle and tang, as the pin keeps the blade anchored in the handle and away from the bottom of the scabbard where its point can be shattered. It may be tight enough without the pin now but changes in humidity can change and loosen the fit.

Grey

[runagmc]

Nice inheritance. The katana looks like it could be worth restoring to me. Would be expensive but since you got it for free it would probably be a good investment. It appears to have a nice healthy suguta and over all would probably be beautiful restored.

[cabowen]

Katana is indeed quite nice and deserving of the proper professional restoration.....

[k morita]

Veli,　

I agree with you.

You have good eyes.

 

It is a rare shinto sword,the mei says "Unshu ju, Dai-Min-Kyo/Kin". 雲州住大明京 .

See Honma's meikan(3rd ed.) on page 512

[Delivery McGee]

The signature of the katana might be 雲州住大明京, Unshu ju Daiminkin (Daiminkin of Unshu (Izumo) province). There were 3 generations of smiths by this name in 17th-18th century in Izumo province. They were rather respectable smiths!

 

That's what one of the guys on the other forum said (with different English transliteration, but same kanji and meaning the same guy).

[george trotter]

Hi,

Yes, nice family treasures for sure.

It has not been mentioned, but the markings on the guard of the sabre are I believe (reading R to L) "Tai 3". This is an abreviation for Taisho 3rd year...1914. I have seen similar sabres dated like this, eg. "Mei 40"...1907. The other stamps are to be found in the various militaria books.

Regards,

Geo.

[k morita]

That's what one of the guys on the other forum said (with different English transliteration, but same kanji and meaning the same guy).

 

How did the guy translate on the other forum ?

[Delivery McGee]

"my guess on the reading is 雲川住大明京 but the last character especially is pretty dubious.

 

Google turns up this which says 大明京 (read Daimei Kei) is the name of a swordsmith from the Edo period.

 

They read the second character as 州.

 

apparently he had descendants with the same name who were still making swords, here's Daimei Kei III in the 1700s."