jamesicus Posted October 5, 2011 Report Posted October 5, 2011 Here is the Etiquette, as best I remember it, for Nihontô handling and presentation that I was taught by Hakusi Inami in 1960: http://jp29.org/nihetiquette.htm Quote
CurtisR Posted October 10, 2011 Report Posted October 10, 2011 James, I agree with the bow - to show respect to the maker, and to the weapon and to it's connection to you. I'm a practitioner of MJER Iai and it's considered very rude NOT to bow to your own sword, even when cleaning it or showing it to another. This is just how my Sensei taught me and so others may think differently, but I believe handling a sword should be a serious thing. ^5. Best, Curt R. Quote
Lindus Posted October 10, 2011 Report Posted October 10, 2011 Interesting, a polisher friend just returned from a conference in Japan commented that during the whole visit not one Japanese polisher bowed to the blades handled. Roy Quote
David Flynn Posted October 10, 2011 Report Posted October 10, 2011 I believe this bowing to a sword, is more a martial arts thing. Quote
CurtisR Posted October 11, 2011 Report Posted October 11, 2011 Well yes, it's a martial arts thing of course...I doubt I'll be seeing much bowing at the Florida show in Feb. --- wouldn't that make it more of a square dance?? Also, just to be clear, when one bows to the sword it's not with the intent or feeling of being it's 'bee-otch'. Just respect and taking it seriously. Best, Curt R. Quote
sanjuro Posted October 11, 2011 Report Posted October 11, 2011 Bowing to the sword is a martial arts thing as stated, but originally it was more a warrior thing. Bowing to the sword is a mark of respect for the weapon as a protector of life and as a taker of life. It signifies the warrior's oneness with his weapon, and his dependence upon it. To the warrior it is his constant companion and also a symbol of his commitment . Such a thing demands great trust and therefore great respect. It is also a very private acknowledgement, since when performed by the sword's owner, it embodies a plea to heaven to witness the justification for its use. Not very practical at a sword show or at shinsa, since every one would be bobbing up and down like a bunch of yoyo's as they travelled from sword to sword in succession. :D As a mark of respect to the blades maker, I'm not sure, but I think this is a more recent attribution to the reason for bowing. It is not however out of place. Quote
CurtisR Posted October 11, 2011 Report Posted October 11, 2011 Very well said Keith, I agree. Best Regards, Curt R. Quote
chrstphr Posted October 11, 2011 Report Posted October 11, 2011 i always thought you were bowing to the long line of people who had taken care of the sword to pass it down through the generations. Funny, i didnt consider showing respect for the swordsmith who made it. Chris Quote
David Flynn Posted October 11, 2011 Report Posted October 11, 2011 I've been to sword shows in Australia, Japan and America, and have never seen anyone bowing to a sword. Also whilst in Japan, I had the pleasure of examining swords at various dealers, no one bowed. Quote
Toryu2020 Posted October 11, 2011 Report Posted October 11, 2011 Part of this is public versus private, If you are in someones home viewing their personal collection etiquette dictates you bow to the object, to acknowledge it and all those people and spirits that have been mentioned already - basically formal etiquette as in the tea ceremony. in a retail situation like a sword shop you would not necessarily bow unless you wanted to be very polite, I think Inami-san was doing James a service by teaching him in just this way, as a foreigner he may have been viewed with suspicion but if he were seen to be very polite and practised at handling swords he would get more consideration I am sure. Today people, especially Japanese people seem to handle swords roughly at shows and other places, I always bow to the swords before and after at a kantei-kai but see few Japanese doing the same these days although this is what we are taught. I'll admit I am a lowly martial artist, and I was taught pretty much what James details by a Japanese teacher - the reigi for viewing swords and for practising with them is similar but I never thought exclusive to budoka... -t Quote
sanjuro Posted October 11, 2011 Report Posted October 11, 2011 Thomas. There is nothing lowly about being a martial artist. Our view of the sword is perhaps less cluttered by other more modern notions of the sword held by many who see themselves exclusively as sword fanciers or collectors. Perhaps we also have a slightly more spiritual approach to and use of the sword, but there is nothing lowly in the way we regard the sword or the traditions associated with it. Constant practice with a sword and a close association with it builds a rather unique relationship. It is a regard and relationship that is difficult to forge with sincerity under any other circumstances. We are not better or worse than the man who admires the sword without ever using one or studying a martial discipline. We are merely a product of that different experience. 1 Quote
jamesicus Posted October 11, 2011 Author Report Posted October 11, 2011 Part of this is public versus private,If you are in someones home viewing their personal collection etiquette dictates you bow to the object, to acknowledge it and all those people and spirits that have been mentioned already - basically formal etiquette as in the tea ceremony. in a retail situation like a sword shop you would not necessarily bow unless you wanted to be very polite, I think Inami-san was doing James a service by teaching him in just this way, as a foreigner he may have been viewed with suspicion but if he were seen to be very polite and practised at handling swords he would get more consideration I am sure .......... I think that pretty much captures the essence. I believe Inami-san discusses and illustrates bowing to the sword in this manner in his book NIPPON-TÔ: THE Japanese SWORD although I am not certain about that since it is some fifty years since I read it. However, I have just purchased a copy of that book -- it is on the way to me now -- so I will render a report here when I receive it. BTW, Bowing to the sword "in order to show respect and pay homage to the skill of the smith who made it" are my words not those of Inami-san and I may be wrong in this thesis. Roy and David point out that they have not encountered bowing to the sword at sword shows or during normal handling in recent times. Maybe it is impractical now (there were no sword shows of the scope, size and frequency of those of today -- at least that is how I envision them -- in 1960) or maybe bowing to swords is now considered quaint and archaic -- a throw back to "the old days". Of course, the etiquette may not have been quite as I remember it -- I am, after all, plumbing the depths of an eighty two year old memory concerning events of some fifty years ago. James Quote
Jean Posted October 11, 2011 Report Posted October 11, 2011 "in order to show respect and pay homage to the skill of the smith who made it" An other common acceptance says that it is paying respect to all the generations which were able to keep it/care for it and hand it down to us to be able to study it. Quote
CurtisR Posted October 11, 2011 Report Posted October 11, 2011 Nicely put Jean - I like that as well. And as a student of Iai, I don't feel 'low' either although learning all of these new things is making me much more aware of the connection between the two. Since I'm fairly new to the boards however, I will now silence myself and listen Best, Curt R. Quote
David Flynn Posted October 11, 2011 Report Posted October 11, 2011 Swords aren't made by magic. It's only spiritual, if one thinks it is. Quote
cabowen Posted October 12, 2011 Report Posted October 12, 2011 Swords aren't made by magic. It's only spiritual, if one thinks it is. True enough, but respect and good manners are always appreciated..... Quote
Bugyotsuji Posted October 12, 2011 Report Posted October 12, 2011 Just as an aside, people have taught me over the years that you NEVER enter a hot spring bath wearing a towel. (You can carry it above the water, or place it on the side or even on your head, but never in the water.) You often see Japanese people doing just this, however, especially on TV! With the sword, once you know what the rule is, you can then set the standard. Nationality becomes irrelevant. Quote
jamesicus Posted October 18, 2011 Author Report Posted October 18, 2011 .......... I believe Inami-san discusses and illustrates bowing to the sword in this manner in his book NIPPON-TÔ: THE Japanese SWORD although I am not certain about that since it is some fifty years since I read it. However, I have just purchased a copy of that book -- it is on the way to me now -- so I will render a report here when I receive it .......... The book arrived today -- a 1948 First Edition in excellent condition. Sure enough the text accompanying Fig 2 in the Introduction reads: "For the first step, one wishing to examine a sword should show his respect by bowing to it, as illustrated, before proceeding to unsheath the blade." I was especially thrilled to obtain this book for now, along with my copy of John Yumoto's THE SAMURAI SWORD Handbook, I have the two books I started off with in 1960. James Quote
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