World War one katana? Strange story...

[Petteri]

Hi,

 

I've stumbled upon an auction for what is claimed to be a World War one katana brought back from Europe. Having done a little bit of research it seems very few katanas were carried into WW1 Europe. Some Japanese-Canadians may have brought katanas. Moreover, the auctioneer claims the seller's grandfather "captured" it in Malta in 1917. Now the Japanese navy was in Malta, but on the Allied side and not infantry fighting. But maybe the grandfather was given or bought the sword from a Japanese Navy officer and this got lost in translation.

 

The sword has only a wood handle remaining, no wrappings, and the scabbard is leather combat covered. The blade is old and rusty, and its clear it has not been treated well for a long long time. But it does intrigue me if this is really a world war one katana, as it would be quite unusual I would assume.

 

Please have a look at this album and see what you think? I know the pictures are terrible but its all I have.

 

 

 

Is this real at all? Has the era been confused, is it a WW2 blade? Is this worth spending a little money on as a gamble?

[shingen]

Peter, it could be me but I can't see your photo's. I get redirected to the index site of photobucket.

[Petteri]

Damnation... Lets try again:

 

 

 

 

 

OK seems to be working now!

[leo]

Hello, Peter,

it may be the pictures, which trick me, but except for the leather cover it does not look Japanese to me!

 

Regards, Martin

[Petteri]

Hi Martin,

 

That was what I feared. The provenance was strange at best so I guess I'll pass on this one.

 

Thanks for your reply!

[shingen]

Thanks for the photo's Peter,

 

I agree with Martin. Leave this one for what it is and save up for a good one.

[Clive Sinclaire]

Gentlemen

I know its not quite on the subject of this thread, but if you will indulge me, I am reminded that in my early days of collecting (early 1970's) there seemed to have been more eccentric individuals around than I know of now. One that this thread reminds me of was a certain Captain Johhnes, who was a young infantry officer reputed to be the only officer in World War 1, to wear a fully mounted tachi in the trenches of the Somme! I remember him also bringing a Christie's sale to a halt with his demands that we all stand and bow to a blade signed Masamune!

Crazy but true

Clive Sinclaire

[Henry Wilson]

If I recall correctly, this book mentions a British officer carrying a wakizashi to the front lines of WW1. The book itself is great read and I recommend it.

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Falling-Blossom ... 1844138208

[christianmalterre]

This British "Chevalier" had done much better in throwing that sword directly into the face of this "German Gefreite" and kikk him in Hell already those early days(this type was equally in Somme-seems he did hide in dirt there-instead of facing an character like this British Knight)(Laugh!)...

Iron Crosses were seemingly obtained very easy-

 

Christian

[Clive Sinclaire]

Gentlemen

I am prompted to recall that, as well as being in the trenches in World War 1 with his Japanese sword, Captain Johnnes was also an Air Raid warden during our second little disagreement with Germany. He was to be found patroling the streets of London during the Blitz wearing a kabuto as protection.

Whilst on the subject of eccentrics, some will know Sir Frank Bowden who had a country estate at Thame near Oxford, which I visited as he was a patron of British kendo. Sir Frank owned a pet cheetah and was to be found driving around the streets of Oxford with the cheetah sitting in the front seat of his car!

He later moved to Windsor and I regularly had Sunday afternoon tea with him and long discussions about some of the swords he still had.

Crazy days!

Regards

Clive Sinclaire

[shingen]

As we say in Holland (bad translation): The wonders have not yet left the this world. Interesting stories indeed! Thanks for sharing them. IT must have been a interesting sight in the trenches in the some running around with a Wakizashi and a ARP Warden running around with a Kabuto

 

I have a few ARP items in my WWII collection, perhaps I should add a Wakizashi to remember this interesting story.

[Petteri]

Wow some great stories here, thanks for sharing! Noone can do eccentric quite as well as the British I would say.

 

So there might actually been a few traditional Japanese swords in WWI Europe:

 

* Captain Johnnes and his tachi

* The British officer with the waki

* Japanese-Canadians with katanas

* Potentially some IJN officers (?)

 

At least a few of these seem to have been lost in battle, including swords from the Japanese-Canadians lost in trenches after attacks...

[christianmalterre]

Laugh!

me wouldn´t call this too much excentric here...

It´s but real and pure "Chivalry"-which but,of course,can only be found in England and France...(:-)

(King Arthur did spread this "Holy Seed" already long times ago...Laugh!)

(Mine Grandfather who was an high ranking German Officer in the Afrikakorps always said-he never met any British Soldier who definitly was not an Gentlemen and "Excentric Knight"-He always prised the pure Chivalric Character of the British Soldiers!-the most honourable gueste an enemy could give-Not?)

 

Christian

[IanB]

Gentlemen, Just to take this thread back a fraction. About 6 years ago a lady wrote to me at the Royal Armouries enclosing a photograph of what she thought was a sword blade dug up in her garden. Her conclusion that it might be a sword was based on the fact that she lived at Edge Hill, the site of the first major battle in the Civil war (the real one not the one that took place later ) fought in October 1642. From the photograph it was clear it had indeed been a sword. What remained was about a foot long piece of vestigal rust. What clinched the fact it was a sword was the copper habaki still wrapped around it, which judging by the size showed it had been a wakizashi. It may of course have been buried at any time after 1870 or so, but judging by the amount of corrosion it equally could have been a relic of the battle. If it had been used at the battle, there was only really one source - Capt. John Saris who was given a wakizashi by Tokugawa Hidetada when he negotiated the trading treaty between England and Japan. He died in Fulham in 1643 and his will list no Japanese items at all despite the fact he was also given an armour (by Matsura Hoin) and various other weapons. If this sounds rather far fetched, note that Alexander Popham(1605 – 1669), a commander of the Parliamentary forces is depicted in a portrait wearing his armour and a kastane sword from Sri Lanka.

 

Ian Bottomley

[kaigunair]

As someone who holds us Japanese-Americans who fought for the US during ww2, I'd be very interested to know of any similar Japanese-Canadian soldiers who fought in either wwII or prior.

 

From what I know, the Japanese-canadian population had an even worse experience that the Japanese-Americans who were sent into the internment camps.

[watsonmil]

Dear Junichi,

In response to your query about Japanese-Canadians serving in the Canadian Armed Forces, .... During WWI Japanese volunteered to fight in the Canadian Army. Out of the 196 volunteers, 54 were killed, 93 were wounded and only 49 returned home safely. After a long struggle, the surviving veterans were finally granted the right to vote by the B.C. legislature in 1931.

WWII was a totally different situation, ... as most of our Japanese-Canadians lived on the West Coast of Canada and since it was feared that the Japanese might form a fifth colum should Imperial Japan launch an invasionary attack, it was decided to move the Japanese inland to internment camps. Since Canada was effectively out of the war with Japan after the capture of The Winnipeg Grenadiers, and The Royal Rifles of Canada in the fall of Hong Kong unlike the Americans who were heavily engaged in the War with Japan, there was LITTLE need of Japanese language translators in the Canadian Army whereas in the US Services there was a GREAT need for Japanese translators.

In total I believe there were only 4 or 5 Japanese-Canadians serving in the Canadian Services during WWII up to the end of the war in Europe. Once the war in Europe was finished, ... more Japanese were asked to enlist for Canada's soon to be involvement in the war with the Japanese. The dropping of the Atomic Bomb ended the war with Japan before Canada could join with the Americans in the overthrow of the Japanese.

Looking back in hindsight it was of course a mistake interning Japanese-Canadians during WWII, ... but one must understand and have LIVED with the thought of a possible Japanese invasion, .... and not be some bloody Politically Correct armchair historian of the present who can only see the negative without having lived the fear.

As a side note the MOST famous Japanese-Canadian to serve during WWII served in the Imperial Japanese Army as an interpreter, and interrogator as well as an infamous torturer of Canadian POW'S. His name was Kanao Inouye commonly refered to as the Kamloops Kid. He personally was responsible for the torture and murder of a great number of Canadian POW'S. I personally knew two of the Canadian POW's that he tortured. Kanao Inouye was tried and convicted of HIGH TREASON by Canada after the war and was executed August 27, 1947 in Hong Kong's Stanley Prison.

... Ron Watson

[Petteri]

Thanks for sharing, very interesting!