Overseas Shinsa.

[David Flynn]

Unfortunately, when an overseas shinsa is occurring, there are a few contributing factors of why mistakes occur. The limited amount of books the team can carry with them. The amount of swords coming through. Even the possibility of jet lag. I'm not making excuses for anyone, just pointing out what occurs. As far as I'm aware, this occurs with all traveling Shinsa teams. Not all judgement can be right 100% of the time. I know of people who have submitted their swords in Japan to more than one Soc. and have received two different papers? Which one is right? Obviously the one with the highest graded smith. :lol:

[ububob]

Quite right David, in the end it is just another opinion hopefully a learned one but an opinion none the less...and sometimes a vague one at that.

[Toryu2020]

Well I would say the key word here is overseas,

and I may be criticized because I have a dog in this hunt but I believe the way we approach shinsa here in the West is mistaken. I seem to see the roadshow model as dominant; Grab five things from your closet, don't know who made them, where they are from or how much they are worrth. Let's take em to the roadshow and see which one wins the lottery. This is a formula for disappointment, even if one of your swords turns out to be valuable.

 

Study what you have, learn all that you can about the smith and if the blade does not convince folks that the tang is signed by your guy do not be surprised if the shina does not pass it or give it the same attribution. Take the attribution and other info and go back to the books, ask yourself what did they see that you didn't? Learn all that you can about this other school and try to prove their attribution correct. If you are not convinced then use your new found knowledge to dissect and disprove their ideas. Have the blade restored and polished to highlight the features that you think it has, a good polisher will tell you if you are on the right track. Submit a sword that they cannot see as the work of anyone else and see your study validated. Submit swords that no one is quite sure of and most likely you will see that reflected in the attribution.

 

Nothing is more gratifying than seeing a sword, knowing in your heart what it is and removing the tsuka to see the very name you had in mind. Even more so is when you own the sword and all who see it make the same call before revealing the signature. This is the kind of collector we often see in Japan, he knows what he has and does not need the paper. But we do need papers, for validation, for insurance, for record keeping and for our families...

 

If you get a wonky attribution you have to ask what was wonky with the sword, what did they see and how can I get them to see what I see. If study of the sword is what it is all about, shinsa is a joy. If turning a quick profit is the idea then slot machines are probably more profitable.

mho

-t

[cabowen]

To use Tom's phrase, I too have a dog in the fight, having organized several overseas shinsa, so I will forward my take on them...

 

First of all, there is no doubt that mistakes are made, as they are in any shinsa. The more items you try to cram through, the more mistakes, in general. I have limited the number of items through our shinsa in an effort to minimize these mistakes. I also have the team arrive a few days ahead of time so they are rested. I set time into the schedule for the team to review and explain calls that owners have a hard time with, to provide more value to the customer. Usually I vet these to eliminate simple owner remorse and to identify those calls that are indeed difficult to understand. To date we have had very little of this...

 

Tom, in looking at the questions raised here on this board regarding calls made at the recent NTHK-Yoshikawa shinsa, I do not see them coming from people who fit your "Grab five things from your closet, don't know who made them, where they are from or how much they are worth. Let's take em to the roadshow and see which one wins the lottery..." characterization. Clearly they have done enough homework to legitimately question how a 29 3/4" forged blade in what appears to be original edo era koshirae can be a WWII oil quenched Tokyo blade, or how a blade in pure masame with ichimai boshi can be Bungo Takeda, or how an Emura blade can be said to be gimei when it is a known fact that he ran a prison workshop with dozens of "students" signing his blades....

 

While there are always some angry people that will not accept the fact that their treasure is simply not what they thought, people are paying money for expert opinion and when they receive a call that goes against common sense or established teaching, they have a legitimate concern that should be addressed.

 

I have often said that shinsa is not the end point, but the beginning, when it comes to studying a sword. I agree with Tom that one should use the expert opinion as a starting point to educate one's self about a blade.

 

One does need to have a certain amount of faith in the experts one chooses and in their opinions though for this exercise to have any validity. In the end, it is a consumer's marketplace. There are several organizations offering shinsa. Like any product or service, consumers should do their homework and choose accordingly. If one is unhappy with the result, try another organization.

[Toryu2020]

I am not familiar enough with the swords in question to comment but I do agree that the owners are correct in seeking more information, research and other opinions by posting their questions in forums like this sharing them with sword clubs and yes submitting for other shinsa.

 

But I would say not till you got the paper you wanted or the "best smith" , as mentioned in the first post, rather the best attribution and that requires study...

-t

[David Flynn]

Unfortunately, in Australia we don't have any sword clubs. Each state has it's own clique and it's hard for beginners to make a good start. We are fortunate in that Adrian Schlemmer took the initiative to orginise the last two shinsa. May I say, that I have been happy, to have been of assistance and hope that these events, have brought the Australian collectors a little closer together.