mei translation and sword i.d. please

[drjoe]

a friend of mine picked this up at a garage sale for a paltry sum, and i am trying to help with identification.

 

to my novice eye, it is obviously a showa-to, and the half stamp on the nakago seems to be half of a showa stamp, which probably dates this to post-1940 and certainly firmly within the WWII era. the blade is not in good polish, and has a lot of light surface scratching from sandpaper (?), so i have trouble seeing any hada (sometimes i can imagine an itame hada, but then i think it's just pitting and then dust in the photo). the overall appearance has a kind of dull look to it that makes me think the steel is mill steel or mantetsu, though maybe this is just an effect of the polish. on the other hand, it does seem to have a "real" temperline and i don't see any obvious evidence of oil quenching. so, my guess is a non-traditional, possibly machine-made showa-to that was water quenched.

 

i'd hoped to have more luck with the mei. i got SEKI JU KANE ... SAKU, but i'm having trouble with the next three kanji after KANE. the handwriting is rather loose making it hard for me to match up characters. it seems just a little unusual to have a 4-character name on a blade like this. there is no date on the ura side, though the owner said there might have been a tag indicating it was from 1926. given the stamp, that date seemed unlikely to me.

 

for what it's worth, the blade is not in gunto fittings, but well-worn traditional mounts with antique koshirae.

 

translation help as well as thoughts about the blade itself would be appreciated, thanks.

 

[k morita]

Hi,

Yes, WW2 era sword in Seki.

The mei is " Seki ju, Kanematsu(family name) Kanetatsu saku".

 

関住, 兼松 兼達 作

[leo]

DrJoe,

 

please leave a name after the message, so you can be properly addressed.

 

See here:

http://home.earthlink.net/~ttstein/kanetats.jpg

 

Morita San, you were faster with the translation!

 

The signature implicates that it is a joint work of 2 smiths. In this case it is doubtful because the blade is non-traditionally made and looks oil-quenched.

Members more experienced with Showa smiths can maybe tell you more about these smiths. I only know them because many years ago I owned a gendaito blade made by them.

 

Regards,

[drjoe]

thank you morita san. i'm embarassed that the 5th character was simply KANE repeated again. i looked long and hard at the 3 remaining characters trying to match them up. you have to admit (?), the writing seems a bit rushed.

 

here he seems to have taken his time:

 

http://home.earthlink.net/~ttstein/kanetats.jpg

 

should i repost to the gunto section for more opinions on the blade details?

[leo]

Morita San,

 

just read that you stated, Kanematsu is the family name.

So its not 2 smiths, but a family name which sounds like a first name?

 

Regards,

[drjoe]

DrJoe,

 

please leave a name after the message, so you can be properly addressed.

 

See here:

http://home.earthlink.net/~ttstein/kanetats.jpg

 

Morita San, you were faster with the translation!

 

The signature implicates that it is a joint work of 2 smiths. In this case it is doubtful because the blade is non-traditionally made and looks oil-quenched.

Members more experienced with Showa smiths can maybe tell you more about these smiths. I only know them because many years ago I owned a gendaito blade made by them.

 

Regards,

 

thanks for your reply. my signature block has my correct first name: Joe.

 

here is what came up on a google search for this smith, though the mei appears quite different:

 

http://ryujinswords.com/kanetatsu.htm

 

http://ryujinswords.com/kanetatsu2.htm

 

from what i can tell, this is a single smith who signed his name with 4 characters. it seems as if his blades have been papered:

 

http://nihon-to.blogspot.com/2007/01/ja ... miths.html

 

though he is not on Dr. Stein's list of Rikugun Kumei Tosho smiths.

 

i would like to hear others' opinions about the manufacture of this blade. what kind of steel? oil or water quench? could it be from the 1920's?

 

the link above suggests that showa stamps go back to 1926, though here the same author suggests that the stamps started around 1940:

 

http://ryujinswords.com/shostamp.htm

[cabowen]

Your sword is a non-traditionally made WWII gunto.

 

The showa stamp was used to identify such blades. It was oil quenched, and most likely made with Western steel. Oil quenching produces a hamon that is different from that made when a blade is water quenched. Yours is textbook.

 

The ryujinswords link contains statements I would disagree with but isn't far from the mark in general. The Showa stamp is seen mostly on blades made in the late 1930's and into the early 1940's. It was not in use in the 1920's. Your sword most likely dates to around 1940.

[drjoe]

thanks chris. i did look at pictures of oil-quenched hamon since this was a suspicion, but i'm afraid i must still not be good at readily differentiating them from water quenched hamon.

 

can someone point me to a set of pictures that makes this clear? i have seen previous posts on this subject here and elsewhere, but have not seen a good side by side explanation.

[cabowen]

It can be difficult sometimes....You really need to see swords in hand to learn to judge the difference with confidence.

 

Oil quenching generally does not produce nie (the larger, individual spots of martensite) in WWII blades so the hamon is a rather inactive, lifeless, dull, nioi. There are usually dark, hard areas at the peaks of the sanbon sugi as well.

 

Below find a photo of a Kanemoto made in the traditional manner. There are nie here, though hard to see...The habuchi is soft, bright, and thick. This is more in keeping with a water quench with tamahagane....

[cisco-san]

Joe,

You can see this smith also in J. Slough´s book "An Oshigata Book of Modern Japanese Swordsmith 1868-1945" on page 68.