HOW do you collect?

[sanjuro]

Theres not a great deal of traffic on the forum at the moment, and a question has been in mind for while now. How do YOU collect? Not what, nor who you deal with, but rather your method of collecting. How do you select an item for your collection? What criteria do you apply to a possible acquisition, and then when you have acquired it, How do you proceed to study it and install it in your collection. Is each item a seperate entity or is your collection itself the entity and each item a part of the whole?

I fancy we each have our methods and criteria and that no two are completely identical. Its not a competition and there is no wrong or right way.

Please feel free to share as I will do if this thread attracts any response.

[Jean]

"Draw first, Keith!!"

 

Sorry, I am in my western period

[sanjuro]

OK.

I wasnt too sure whether or not it was wise to go first, but I guess its only fair.

 

My collection is a series of entities. Typically I will acquire a blade in polish and more often than not, since they are in polish they will be in shirasaya, not necessarily signed and papers are not a primary requirement until I have researched the blade for myself. Then, if I cannot pin down the school or smith I will send it to shinsa.(I have a preference, though not exclusively, for ubu mumei koto blades). I avoid blades with defects and flaws simply because there are good blades of the types that interest me, to be had without settling for a flawed or defective blade.

 

Now comes the part in which I am probably different from others:

Once the blade has yielded up all the information I can find, or I have obtained papers etc. I will either buy or sort out from items and sets that I already have, a suitable set of mounts for the sword. These typically will be of the same era as the blade and from the same locality as the blade. I do not have the sword mounted, but rather simply assign the mounts to the blade. This assignment may change as a better set is acquired. I dont remount the swords that I own. If they happen to come with a koshirae then they stay with that koshirae, although kept seperate with tsunagi and shirasaya to protect the complete mounting.

 

By doing this, I get to research the blade and then have the pleasure of researching the correct style of mounts for that blade. Sometimes the right set of mounts may take years to find or accumulate, but I learn a lot from arranging my collection this way and I get a great deal of satisfaction from both the blades and the tosogu. My biggest problem is always to find just the right tsuba as there are a lot of selfish tsuba collectors out there that grab the best ones before I get to them , but hey, thats life. :D

 

I guess this may sound a little strange to others, but there it is.

 

OK Jean..... Now its your turn :D

[watsonmil]

Dear Keith,

Rather than collect a specific field of Japanese Art, ... ie. Nihonto as opposed to Tosogu as opposed to Ukiyo-e, ... I collect a cross section of Japanese Art. I use the word Japanese Art as opposed to Samurai Art in that Netsuke as an example would not necessarily have been used by the Samurai class, ... but yet form an intergal part of enjoying the Edo period and the Samurai era as well as earlier Japanese periods. Of course there are favorite subjects that play a role in collecting, ... mine being the Tanegashima and it's accruments. The one criteria that I limit myself to is to aquire genuine examples of the best that I can NOT afford. In this I have been very fortunate in being in the right place at the right time, ... and also in hind sight having started collecting when prices were not so expensive as today. When I do occassionaly still aquire a piece I study the piece to death, ... unless one studies books, the internet, and the opinions of other collectors one will never get full value from the artifact acquired. The intellectual knowledge is FAR more important than the possession of any specific object. A caution here to new collectors, ... if one is set on collecting Japanese Art avoid the artifacts which show excessive wear, damage or commonality. My firm belief is that ANY artifact ( you will notice I did not use the word ART ) that is acquired deserves to be restored to its original beauty and/or function and this alone can be terribly expensive. Unless one has the where-with-all to carry or have carried out this exercise, ... well then leave this field alone and take up collecting hockey cards or whatever.

In closing, ... I would have to state that although the several swords I own form the basis of my interest, ... they are only a VERY small part of the whole picture of my interest in the Arts of the Samurai or the historic Culture of Japan. I attach a photograph of a SMALL part of my collection in order to show the diversity of my collecting interests.

... Ron Watson

[Derek]

I really love these type of threads. I am usually just a quiet observer, but I will share with this one. I keep one Nihonto, koto, katana, mumei. I only consider selling to upgrade. I am on my 4th sword since my obsession started in 2004. I study the blade every day, and read everything possibly related to it. (Submitting latest purchase to Min shinsa next month :D ) Always saving for upgrade, so I never buy fittings, but do appreciate them.

Derek

[Jean]

I started collecting in the mid 80's, gathering swords at the timec were only John Yumoto, BW Robinson, Hawley were available.

 

Then after 3 years I passed to other things, antique guns (mainly American), mineral and fossiles.

 

I came back to swords at the end of last century. I had up to ten swords, but apart 2 of them, nothing outstanding. I decided to resale everything and go for one sword representative of each gokaden. I like koto swords. At the time being I have gathered 3 of them:Soshu den. Mino Den, Bizen Den. Swords are of the best quality and in full polish, Naoe Shizu, Yasumitsu, Tametsugu. Next one will be within 2 years a Yamato one and then a Rai one. All katana/Tachi size. I am also collecting special kogatana forged by Mino smiths around 1680 and keep a splendid Mino tanto, late Muromachi (Kanetomo).

 

I know each swords by heart, inch by inch. They have no kizu.

[cabowen]

I started collecting swords at the ripe age of 13....I bought whatever I could afford from my pay at the local town newspaper, which allowed me to place free of charge, a wanted ad in the twice weekly paper. I managed to accumulate a dozen or so swords, none worth mentioning, before I started college. Sold most of them to help pay my way. Started buying again seriously after I landed my first post college job...again, not much purpose...

 

It was when I started graduate school in the late '80's that I saw the light....I saw a freshly Japanese polished Minatogawa Jinja blade at a show and that was it. It has been mostly about kindai/gendai-to ever since, though I have limited it to those made in Tokyo.

 

I have many reasons for collecting Tokyo gendaito; these blades were off the radar and thus were an opportunity to get high quality at low cost with little competition. Once I spent time researching these smiths I realized that there were many talented people who had been ignored by the collecting community at large in Japan, mostly due to no better reason than they were associated with the war. The fact that some of these smiths, or their relatives, were still alive added a whole new dimension to collecting, allowing me to get information and details of these people that was simply not available with older swords. The memories of looking at, for example, a Kotani Yasunori or a Kato Kanekuni blade, with the smith that made them 60 years ago makes them all the more precious. Some of my most treasured memories of the time I spent in Japan are the hours I spent with 80-90 year old sword smiths, hearing about their lives making swords, during and after the war....

 

While I have no illusions that any of these blades can compare to the masterpieces of the Koto era, they often surprise experienced collectors in Japan with their quality. There were more than a few dropped jaws at kantei meetings over the years....It became almost a personal mission of mine while living in Japan to expose these forgotten smiths to my collector friends with hopes that someday they may get some of the credit they deserve for putting their utmost effort into making worthy blades, the last likely to ever be carried into combat. I would rather see all the great masterpieces in public hands where they can be enjoyed by all collectors...I wouldn't want the responsibility of ownership of such treasure in any case!

 

As time went by I realized that I needn't hastily buy any Tokyo blade that came my way and focused on special order blades of josun length or better. This made the hunt more difficult, but more rewarding. I don't collect blades with flaws, without dates, with overly rusted nakago, etc. My slogan is "tomorrow's Juyo today".....

 

About 10 years ago, as my collection of my favorite Tokyo smiths neared completion, I decided to up the ante and really give myself a challenge- Tokyo kindai/gendai tanto. I have been fortunate to bag more than my fair share of these and am now wondering where my next challenge lies....perhaps finishing my book on Tokyo kindai smiths, which I have been working on, on and off, for the last 15 years!

[Clive Sinclaire]

Gentlemen

I bought my first sword in 1969 when I gained my shodan at judo. It was a bone tourist piece of very low quality, but I also bought Yumoto's book and soon realised the error of my ways. I began to buy swords which were very cheap at the time and joined the To-ken Society of Great Britain in the very early 1970's. This opened my eyes and I became more serious about swords at a time that has become known as the "gold-rush" years, when many dealers were making vaste somes of money, especially in the USA and Japanese sword dealers toured the world to reclaim their heritage and creating a seemingly unquenchable demand. By the early 80's I was practising kendo as well as Iai and my sensei sent me off to his home town of Saga in Kyushu. It was here I met some serious collectors of Hizen-to and it is upon this aspect of swords, that I have concentrated ever since.

 

Also, we were very lucky in the UK to have Mishina sensei resident and polishing in England for 6 years. There is no doubt that his influence and introducions were of immense importance and those that did not avail themselves of his help for whatever reason, regret it to this day. Incedibly, there are those in the UK who make a living full-time, restoring or selling Japanese swords, who have never been to Japan! I cannot imagine a serious student of Japanese swords failing to go to Japan, where the greatest swords may be seen, the most interesting people met and where it is possible to immerse oneself in the culture. I wonder why this is so.

 

I think that when collecting swords, it becomes very easy to then appreciate many other aspects of Japanese culture. This means that I enjoy and have examples of caligraphy, prints and pottery. Of course, martial objects, including tosogu, armour, yari and naginata sit very well with my sword collection which has both mounted and shira-saya examples.

 

Rather childishly, I wear a piece of metal around my neck on which is inscribed (by a modern Japanese swordsmith that I know) the words "keiko san mae" - practise every day - which is what I try to do. This may be cleaning a sword, drawing an oshigata, reading a book, going to kendo or indeed, having a cup or three of sake and contributing to the NMB, but something Japanese, usually in my tatami room.

Even for me, this is a rather long and boring diatribe for which I hope you will pardon me.

 

Good Night

Clive Sinclaire

[Curran]

Clive wrote, "Even for me, this is a rather long and boring diatribe for which I hope you will pardon me."

*Not boring*. I've been reading your posts since I began studying, and after all these years- I didn't know how you began collecting.

 

I collect what moves me that I can afford, mostly playing devil's advocate with myself to test my own aesthetic and whether or not it is my true opinion or that taught to me. If that taught to me more so than what I feel- then of course attempt to learn what I am missing. Maybe the "Emperor has no clothes", but also sometimes my eyes suddenly see something new and that ah-ha moment is rare and precious as I grow older.

Nihonto is pretty good in this regard, as there is considerable mastery spread out over many centuries and many schools from a complex country. Easy to get seduced by it for a few decades.

 

 

Ps. Jean,

Santa says I've been a good person this year. He says send the Yasumitsu to 115 Sunset Drive, FL, USA.

The Naoe Shizu also would be welcome. I don't see as many nice examples from that school as I once did.

[Grey Doffin]

I started in 1984 with a Heike Mitsuhira (Edo Ishido) wakizashi at my first sword show. After that I would buy everything I could find beating the bush, wait until I'd accumulated between 5 and 10 pieces, and then sell everything I had to buy 1 sword. I did this 5 or so times, always selling to the bare walls to buy 1 sword. This way, rather than having a collection, I had 1 sword that was the best I could afford.

But now I own 2 swords; think I should sell one.

Grey

[paulb]

I bought my first sword in 1983. I have gone through most of the collection phases identified by learned journals, I spent time buying everything Japanese, I bought every rough blade I could find in the hope it was a national treasure waiting to be discovered.

Having learned that this is not the way,at least for me, I took a different approach. I buy swords and other things which strike a note with me. I have seen many that I admire, appreciate and like but when I buy one it has to have something more, to sound old hippie it has to speak to me.

I buy swords in good polish from reputable sources and that have been papered. This means I dont buy many nor do I buy very often.

In the past when I have bought something because I thought it a bargain or having great potential, I have almost always got it wrong. My small collection of cast tsuba and other such delights confirm this. I am also nervous about buying swords badly out of polish I jsut do not enjoy the gamble.

Based on Clive's definition I cannot be regarded as a serious collector. My few trips to Japan have been business related and I have never studied swords there. I would dispute as to whether this means I am not serious. I have studied the subject almost every day for more than 25 years looking at such examples as I can and reading everything I can find. Discussing the subject frequently with those with more Knowledge than me. I have also spent more money on this subject than pretty much anything else, other than basic survival, for the majority of my life. I think that is being serious about the subject. What I do accept is that I am not an expert and cannot expect to know as much as those who do study in Japan (I think we have had this discussion before)

Like Grey but not as effectively I have trimmed down my collection to a smaller number of what I hope are better swords, they are certainly ones that give me a kick every time I look at them. Like Keith I have on occassion (three times) assembled a koshirae for particular blades and for a specific reason.

I have now largely stopped collecting other than refernce books but still hope to learn a lot more more from examples I can see.

[IanB]

Like all the others I started collecting anything and everything that could be described as a Japanese sword. My first was a very small and very bad wakizashi bought at the age of about 14 from a shop in London. It was a period when there was still a lingering animosity towards Japan and nobody else in my area wanted Japanese swords of which there were plenty. Daito, always executioner's swords, and 'look you can still see the blood' (rust), were about £1 to £1.10.0 and shoto, 'harakiri knives' were 10/- or slightly more. By the time I married I sold a dealer the bottom end of my collection, 30 swords and a naginata for £30 and made a profit. Most were rubbish but I bet there was at least one good blade amongst them. I didn't know because there was just no information available to me at the time. One birthday my wife bought me a wakizashi and I remember sitting with Robinson's 'Arts of the Japanese Sword', which was on permanent loan from the local library, and reading the signature' Tadayoshi'. It turned out to be third generation. I was lucky in that my wife, bless her, indulged my passion when I sometimes sometimes spent money on a sword rather than badly needed clothes or other household needs.

By this time the ToKen Society was founded and with another member we started the Northern group which met, and still does, in Manchester. A classic evening occurred when we found the pub in which we met had changed hands and the new owner refused to allow us access to the upstairs room. The bar had been 'modernised' with dim atmospheric lighting and the only place with adequate illumination was the gents toilets. As a result, the other customers were a bit taken aback to find a cluster of blokes stood waving swords when they needed to obtain relief.

Despite having dozens of swords, I lusted after an armour in its box. This finally arrived when my father, on holiday in Ireland, came across one and sent me a telegram with details. The owner was one of those who wanted to sell but didn't know for how much. It took nearly 6 months before we established a price of £50 plus another £10 for a second box of oddments. This was a fortune to me at the time, but I did raise the money and the two boxes were mine. What I got was a superb armour in mint condition made by a Ki Yasukiyo for an elder of the Chohan plus another fine helmet and other pieces. It was then armour all the way. Swords went for more and more armour and all the myriad of bits and bobs that went with it. I still get as much of a thrill at discovering a little piece of trivia like a scabbard cover as I do about a complete armour.

What I loved was that armour is just armour and never pretends to be anything other than it is. I still regard a piece of ashigaru armour just as valid as a fine armour for a wealthy samurai. Yes there are fakes, but big names are just not important - at least to me. More recently I have acquired a few swords, none are outstanding but some are competent, untouched and as worn - a factor I feel almost as important as the quality of the blade. I have come a long way from the heady days when a joiner's son from Yorkshire bought a wakizashi. I am now proud, and fortunate, to own treasures from the opposite side of the world that were the cherished possessions of feudal Japan's upper class. These objects have kept me sane during my long and sometimes stressful life - you cannot ask for better than that.

Ian Bottomley

[Clive Sinclaire]

Paul

"Based on Clive's definition I cannot be regarded as a serious collector"

I am sorry that I did not make myself very clear as I am well aware that you are a "serious collector" and I was really refering to those whose living is made entirely from Japanese swords (dealers, self-taught restorers etc.) who might greatly benifit from a Japanese experience.

 

Another point that I failed to make was the great number of friends and acquaintances that I have met from the shared interest and the worldwide travel that I have made because of Japanese swords. It is no exageration to say that the study and collecting of apanese swords has been an important and integral part of my life. I know this to be the case with many others.

 

to sound old hippie it has to speak to me.

 

It always amuses me to hear this as I wonder what they are actually saying. Could it be "Help me man, I have a nasty case of ha-giri" - peace and love, you should spend money on me" or maybe just "We're all going to San Francisco"

 

Regards

Clive

[paulb]

I think they are saying "come on you know you are mug who cant hold on to cash for more than 5 minutes" I then feel obliged to prove them right

[chrisf]

What could have been a 'mine's bigger than yours' exchange has proved to be interesting and enlightening with some of the opening salvoes fired by (in my opinion) highly respected figures in the field who have made major contributions to furthering our knowledge of the Japanese sword.

I will not bore you with my collecting history as I do not 'collect' as such,I buy swords,study them,learn as much as I can then sell and move on.

Thanks to Ron Gregory,like CAB,I learned that there were good swords made in WW2 that could be bought far more reasonably than 'antique samurai swords' and I have tried to focus more in that area than any other (current jewel is a 1942 Kuniiye made at Nihonso,best I've seen,in stunning polish.)

CAB,keep going with the book,your Tokyo Kindai Tosho notes have been invaluable and would love to see the finished product.

Thanks also to Clive Sinclaire for all his efforts,especially helping to bring Mishina sensei to the UK,his lecture was an unforgettable experience.

[sanjuro]

I wonder if any of you have the same experience as I. I have met quite a few other collectors of both nihonto and tosogu. By far however, the most interesting collections I have had the pleasure to view were not large in comparison to the older collections, like Berens and Hawkshaw. The most interesting were the focused collections of those who specialised in either a type, style or a specific school. Generally I found that after some years of collecting these smaller collections were highly refined and had a greater concentration of quality pieces.

Certainly we would probably all like to own a number of diverse and high quality pieces, but financially this is out of the common man's reach these days. Are we entering (or in the midst of) an age of the highly specialised collector? This in fact was what I had in the back of my mind when first I started this thread.

[Derek]

Bump this thread in the hopes of hearing from more of the amazing Nihonto experts. I have read this forum daily for many years, and am intrigued at the start of your collecting, and current interests. A special thanks to Mr Sinclaire for sharing his story, as his information on another site started my Nihonto interest. Anyone else care to share your stories? Thank you in advance.

Derek

[TTyMiller]

I like the fact that I am getting some history. The swords are art and have history, not to mention the beauty.

 

Im new on the board and have 3 swords none of which are of the boards standards of high Q but I like my swords and you should like yours!

 

 

I understand that I'm years away from getting it right; so hold on to your money in the meantime until learn!~

[nihonto1001]

I collect differently now. When I first started, it was quantity. But soon I ended up with many OK pieces. Now I am much more selective. My selection criteria are Quality of Jigane & hamon, age, shape, smith/papers, and koshirae, in that order. For instance, I would prefer to have an oosuriage Nambokuchu sword with nice jigane & hamon, without papers, than a signed & papered, Shinto sword from an important smith.

 

I have also gained an appreciation for wakimono, or rustic swords. IE., swords that are not quite Soshu, Bizen, Yamashiro, Yamato... but may be a mixture of these influences. For instance, Kokubunji Sukekuni is derived from the Ichimonji school and made excellent swords. Such swords have all of the touchstones we look for as collectors without a gigantic price tag.

 

Some of my favorite swords are wakimono, or from lesser known smiths.

 

Jon